Companies’ roles as an employer is top of mind these days. The nature of the workforce is changing rapidly due to COVID-19 and the ensuing economic uncertainty — keeping your employer brand crystal clear through that uncertainty is more important than ever.
To dive into this topic together, we held a Zoomside Chat with peers in the field. The first in a three-part series, we discussed how to cement your employer brand to answer the question: Who are you as an employer? Do so, and you’ll be well on your way to establishing yourself as a top talent attractor.
Here is the recording, highlights from the discussion, and a full transcript.
Recording: Cementing Your Employer Brand
The recording of our discussion is also here on YouTube.
Highlights on the Discovery Phase
You can register for upcoming Zoomside Chats here. We bring together HR experts to discuss how to be the best employer and recruiter you can be — with lots of time dedicated to Q&A and discussion with attendees. We hope to see you there soon!
The LinkedIn profiles of our employer branding experts, if you’d like to connect with them further:
- Rafael Marcus, Owner, RBM Consulting and formerly Head of Employer Brand at UiPath
- Ray Ferreira, Founder & Chief Strategist, Verge Experience Strategies
- Lori Golden, Head of Elastic Recruiting at Comeet
The impact of a strong talent brand is tangible: 31% increase in response rate, 20% time-to-hire improvement, 43% lower cost per hire. Here’s an article on the LinkedIn data that shines a light on the ROI of talent brand. For even more examples, check out the Ultimate List of Employer Brand Statistics from LinkedIn.
Budgeting for your employer brand initiatives was a recurring topic across the Zoomside Chat. Rafael offered this matrix that he points clients to. It helps map the level of demand and engagement, as well as the size, of your target talent pool — helping you identify where to invest in your employer brand.
Another recurring topic: Understanding what your employer brand actually is. Rafael shared the below visual to drive home the point that your employer brand is a representation of 4 voices: your investors’, your partners’, your talent pool’s, and/or your customers’.
To uncover what your employer brand is, Ray shared more on his Me, We, World model. He recommended companies build a discovery process that uncovers both quantitative and qualitative information about those 4 voices. From each target audience, try to uncover:
- What is it you’re looking for?
- What are we looking to do together?
- How can we change the world?
And a reminder that you can register for upcoming events here.
Event Transcription of the Zoomside Chat
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Comeet Webinar: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining. I see participants are joining as we speak. And as everyone tunes in, we’re just going to spend a few minutes, letting everyone join and getting ready. So stay tuned for us.
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To kick it off.
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Rafael Marcus: Everybody
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Ray Ferreira: Either
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Comeet Webinar: If you’re just joining we’re, we’re really excited to kick off this conversation about cementing your employer brand. We’re just waiting a minute or two for everyone to join. So stay tuned. And as we wait
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Comeet Webinar: A minute or two, please start to think about any questions you may have, over the course of the the discussion. We want to hear from you in the chat. The chat function at the bottom of the screen.
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Comeet Webinar: If you’re just tuning in here. We’re about to kick off our conversation on cementing your employer brand. We’re just waiting a minute or two for everyone to join and as we wait, please. Think of your questions that you want to ask our panelists here.
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Comeet Webinar: And we’ll be having an active chat while we also listening to the discussion.
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Comeet Webinar: Alright, well thanks everyone for joining. I’m going to pass it off to Lori and I will be your kind of contact in the chat box throughout this conversation. So again, please feel free to add in your questions.
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Comeet Webinar: Your thoughts on the discussion and we’re excited to have you here. Alright, Lori oh video
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Lori Golden: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining who meets second webinar in our new series of webinars, we’re, what we’re doing is we’re bringing experts together in this space of talent employer brand culture.
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Lori Golden: Diversity Inclusion all kinds of hot topics so that while we have this time and space right now in this very strange world wherein
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Lori Golden: We can do some knowledge sharing bring do our part, bring people together network and try to sell for some things, and identify some cool opportunities.
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Lori Golden: That are coming up in this time. So I’ve been if you’ve listened before if you tuned in before you know I’m a huge push for. There are a lot of untapped opportunities right now we are gifted with a slow down, period. Unfortunately, the circumstances are not
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Lori Golden: Favorable but we are gifted with a slow down period, which is a great time for reevaluating re strategizing and re prioritizing some of the things that you’re doing.
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Lori Golden: So, and it seems as though you know in the grand scheme. Our people are looking to us right HR professionals leaders.
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Lori Golden: For answers right now like. So what should we be doing, what are some ways that we can be adding value right now. So, so we want to give answers to everyone on the line and be a resource for that. So I’m here. My I’m Lori golden I’m the head of come eat elastic recruiting, which is a malleable.
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Lori Golden: program that helps companies scale talent. I’m also
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Lori Golden: Marcus.
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Lori Golden: As prior head of employer brand for you I path we work together there I he also prior to that comes from LinkedIn and had a lot of
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Lori Golden: Great employer brand campaign and involvement with many different companies there. So he brings a breadth and wealth of a lot of different experiences and information for us.
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Lori Golden: Ray for era with verge. He has a history as well. More on the marketing and branding side from the agency side of the house.
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Lori Golden: He’s done a lot of work with some large corporations in wills in telecommunications and he is now working
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Lori Golden: You know in in on his own and a project capacity doing engagements for company. So I want to welcome both RAF and Ray to the conversation. And we’re going to jump in and start asking some engaging Employer branding questions.
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Lori Golden: Of our experts and have a discussion that way. If you have questions, please do feel free to drop them in chat Adrian
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Lori Golden: Labeled up there as Co meet webinar is going to be moderating all of your questions as well as dropping information polls and links in as we go. So
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Lori Golden: Buckle up, you’re in for a treat here. So, so we’ll go ahead and get started. I’ll pull up my first question. I, I, we are targeting of course we’ve got all kinds of leaders on the phone. We’ve got HR leaders. We’ve got founders, we’ve got
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Lori Golden: C level executives of larger companies, we’ve got, you know, smaller company leaders, so I’m not going to take anything for granted. I want to start with the basic question like what is Employer branding or talent branding, as some people call it
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Lori Golden: And why does it matter. And we’re going to start with raft here and then we’ll hear from ray
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, sure. And thanks for having me. Lori really exciting to be here. I love talking about all this stuff and talk about it for days on end. So, what a great way to spend some time during the quarantine. Um, so, you know, for the question of what is employer brand or town brand.
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Rafael Marcus: Essentially, it’s the thing that is living inside of a company right inside the walls of the company that you don’t necessarily have
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Rafael Marcus: A necessarily specific words for anything. There are words that you can use to express it, but it’s kind of like the feeling of being inside of a company
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Rafael Marcus: A and then that feeling being expressed outside of the company is basically how I would
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Rafael Marcus: Simply explain what Employer branding is and, you know, very simple comparison. It’s like a consumer brand but for the people in your in your company what it’s like to work there.
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Rafael Marcus: So that’s the simplest way to explain it. And, you know, I’m sure re has has something that as well. And then the other part of why it’s so important.
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Rafael Marcus: Also very, very simple. And we can go into I’ll go into some details when we get to know how to get buy in and all that stuff.
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Rafael Marcus: But why it’s so important is because the most important thing in any business as we’ve probably heard over and over again is its people and so
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Rafael Marcus: If attracting great people is really important to your business, which it probably is for every business then arguably
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Rafael Marcus: There is actually nothing more important than the employer brand. And, you know, the consumer brand or the brand focusing on customers.
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Rafael Marcus: Or partners or, you know, the corporate brand are all important as well. Don’t get me wrong, but I would argue, and obviously I’m bias that
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Rafael Marcus: You know, the brand essence of the entire company is the most important thing, and then how that it’s expressed in the employer brand. A is not second too many things. Um, so yeah, so that’s my perspective, Ray. I don’t know. I’m sure you have find out
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Ray Ferreira: Sure. Sure. Thanks. Thanks for the great fundamental question. Let’s get this all all straight from the start.
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Ray Ferreira: From the traditional definition right is that it’s the reason that talented people want to come and work for you.
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Ray Ferreira: But in reality for for companies that are either in control of their employer brand who are or who aren’t in control of their employer brand because your, your company has a brand, no matter what.
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Ray Ferreira: It’s the sum of all of the impressions that your company makes as an employer and that could be no impression at all because people may not think of you as an employer.
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Ray Ferreira: But it could be a positive or a negative impression. So we’ll, we’ll talk a little bit more about that later when when we talk about other sources of information but but the other the other side of it.
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Ray Ferreira: Is that your brand needs to be unique. Because if you’re controlling your brand. You need to help people make a decision. It’s, it’s there to help people who are on a journey of exploring your organization or
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Ray Ferreira: Working in your organization. So they’re part of a candidate journey, or they’re part of the life cycle and deployment lifecycle.
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Ray Ferreira: And at any given point, different decisions come up and your brand helps them make those choices in the moment and those choices relate to
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Ray Ferreira: As as Rafael said they relate to feelings. First, and it relates to logical information. Second, because people people in all aspects, go to
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Ray Ferreira: Their gut feeling for to make those decisions. So that’s the, you know, that’s the reason that it’s so important is that it lives there right at the edge of the decision process for candidates for employees.
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Ray Ferreira: For for people who want to describe the company that they work for or for people that want to engage the talent that works for them within an organization that brand is there to help define that. And if you don’t control it. It defines it defines it for you.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, and I’ll actually re I’ll add something to what I had said earlier, just to go into a little more detail, which I think will be helpful.
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Rafael Marcus: Um, as to why it’s so important. Um, based on what you’re saying, I’m just an example of why it’s so important. And what it is, think of
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Rafael Marcus: A company like just randomly, like the Home Depot. Right. And they have a website that gets
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Rafael Marcus: You know, probably 1500 million people a day right and normal times I don’t know what’s going on now. But actually, probably higher now, but they’ve a huge e commerce platform. Um, it’s a $90 billion a year business.
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Rafael Marcus: And you know they need great engineers right software engineers and you know application engineers and technology technologists. Now, if they aren’t working on their employer brand and a recruiter messages or sends an outreach to
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Rafael Marcus: A potential engineer or somebody they want to hire from a great company that you know has a great pedigree and everything.
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Rafael Marcus: You know, what’s the first thing that somebody thinks of when they see Home Depot. Right. Do they think hammers and nails. Do they think big piece of wood, or do they think platform that 50 million people a day visit that needs to scale and efficient.
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Rafael Marcus: Here right security. So if it’s the former. Good luck to Home Depot. If it’s the ladder. Great job, Home Depot. And that’s, you know,
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Rafael Marcus: Kind of just an example, you know, an example, not a real I’m just making stuff up. Just an example, but I hope that helps people understand the why it’s so important part
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Ray Ferreira: Yet someone some of the most compelling situations that we’ve gotten into in in doing qualitative research, we, we learned that people didn’t see the company as someone who employed that type of person or someone like them and that someone like me, that or the them.
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Ray Ferreira: Can take a lot of different directions. It can can play out in different dimensions, it can be their profession. It can be the, the kind of up and coming person that they are but but sometimes that’s the most basic understanding that a brand has to help people.
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Lori Golden: With
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Ray Ferreira: The type of people that really hire
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Rafael Marcus: And the last thing I mentioned
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Rafael Marcus: Is
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Rafael Marcus: The Why is important is also the impact on the bottom line for the business in terms of sales, especially for B2C companies. So a Virgin Media in the UK Richard Branson’s company.
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Rafael Marcus: did a study a few quite a few years ago, five years ago, something, seeing how the candidate experience affected cable subscriptions.
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Rafael Marcus: And they lost $5 million a year because the what they found is they lost $5 million a year and subscriptions, because people didn’t feel good in the interview process.
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Rafael Marcus: With them, and you know, interviewing isn’t necessarily all encompassing of employer brand, but it is a part of it. Because you want the interviewing to express the brand properly.
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Rafael Marcus: But the bigger picture is that, you know, if I were to buy a cup of coffee from Starbucks, you know, do I feel good about it because they put their baristas through college, and that you know that’s about their employees not about their product, but it can resonate so deeply and so strongly
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Rafael Marcus: That it could actually affect consumer behavior.
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Rafael Marcus: So I think that’s
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Rafael Marcus: You know, that’s the final point I’ll make on why it’s important. It’s not just for higher
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Right.
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Ray Ferreira: I think we’re in a period of time where we’re seeing more of more of those feel good messages than ever before.
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Lori Golden: Exactly.
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Rafael Marcus: Is it greenwashing or white washing or is it real.
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Ray Ferreira: And that’s
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Rafael Marcus: When people actually use their wallet to make a decision on
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Lori Golden: Here or thrust into the future of work and certainly this is a hot topic and becomes much more relevant in the new talent landscape as we come out of this. So,
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Lori Golden: That’s why this is so key and so important. I think that the the mindset is going to have to shift on what matters what’s worth investing in both time and resources.
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Lori Golden: Which is a great segue to the next question, which is, so how do you what
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Lori Golden: So, so this makes sense to all as talent geeks, what we’re saying. But how do you convince somebody who’s very revenue driven numbers data focus
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Lori Golden: How do you show them that this matters directly to the bottom line directly to the talent that is being attracted like how do you make those correlations so that
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Lori Golden: If I want to be a champion in my organization of have a stronger employer brand from anywhere right from HR from talent acquisition from
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Lori Golden: Employee engagement from wherever. But if I want to make a push to be the champion of that, like, where do I start, what is the information that I need to deliver and how does that need to happen.
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Lori Golden: Raph, let’s start with you because you’ve been very analytics heavy in this in this, you know, in your experience.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, sure. And I think from the pole Adrian, if I have a right most majority was Employer branding sits in HR is our
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, so it’s 60% six and HR 25% of marketing, which is which is cool to see and not that surprising that it’s kind of divided up this way.
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Rafael Marcus: And the reason I bring that up is because, from my experience both working with talent acquisition teams.
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Rafael Marcus: To help them build strategy for Employer branding on LinkedIn to also doing it myself at glide path recently and some other projects I’m working on now. Um,
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Rafael Marcus: You know, it’s really hard to get resources and unfortunately if you want to be at all aggressive
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Rafael Marcus: In the marketplace with Employer branding, um, my recommendation would be to try to really get a significant amount of budget.
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Rafael Marcus: To be able to do things because it gives you options. Now that’s not easy, especially from my experience coming from HR
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Rafael Marcus: Now, if you’re in marketing, it may be easier. But it’s never easy to get significant budget, kind of, no matter what position you’re in
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Rafael Marcus: So the way I did it and secured, you know, when I was at you I path is secured a seven figure budget, just for Employer branding, which was awesome. How open and, you know, trusting, they were
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Rafael Marcus: When I was at LinkedIn helping other you know clients or town acquisition teams, try to get a budget and approval.
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Rafael Marcus: I basically used a quantitative approach, right, because in the end, if you’re going to ask for a million dollars or $10 million or whatever amount union or half a million dollars.
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Rafael Marcus: Which is also might sound like scary numbers. So a lot of people, you’re gonna have to have a very strong business case so
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Rafael Marcus: What I have done is basically used us statistics that come from some studies, quite a few come from LinkedIn, but there are plenty out there otherwise.
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Rafael Marcus: But what we see or what some data out there that you can use as examples are that a strong employer brand on average can reduce time to hire by 20%
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Rafael Marcus: So that isn’t a great statistic for anyone in town acquisition, but a CFO doesn’t give a shit because, you know, what does that mean to me as a CFO well
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Rafael Marcus: If any one person that you’re trying to hire. Let’s say you’re trying to hire people, they’re going to hire 100 people all of those people
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Rafael Marcus: Create some sort of value on an annual level compared to their salary. Right, that’s, that’s how businesses work that every single person you invest in, in terms of having on your payroll.
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Rafael Marcus: Needs to produce in order to be worth their salary right so let’s say everyone produces three times their, their salary.
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Rafael Marcus: Well, you can basically chop that down to daily production right X number of dollars are produced every day by this person, this person, this person.
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Rafael Marcus: And if you’re hiring hundred people. You can basically say, well, if I can get those people in 20% faster. Maybe that’s 10 days faster.
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Rafael Marcus: That’s 10 times the amount of value that each person is producing
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Rafael Marcus: Times the number of people. You have to hire and all of a sudden the value of bringing people in 20% faster is like staggering for a CFO or for somebody who actually needs to see
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Rafael Marcus: The like the ROI in quantitative firm, firm form money wise. I mean, it’s pretty pretty amazing and other I’ll just do two other stats, just for people to kind of noodle on there’s a 43%
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Rafael Marcus: reduction in cost per hire. Think about that. If I let you know, again, let’s just do simple math. So let’s just move up to 50% for easy math. Let’s say it costs you on average $10,000 per hire and you have to hire 100 people
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Rafael Marcus: That’s a, that’s a time is a million dollars right now if you decrease that by 50% you’re saving half a million dollars. I mean,
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Rafael Marcus: If you continue, then a quarter. A half of that $250,000 and say I need $250,000 for Employer branding and I will make you back $250,000
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Rafael Marcus: It’s no brainer, right. Um, and then there’s there’s other stats like decrease in attrition and increase in quality of hire, which
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Rafael Marcus: leads to higher production per employee. So there’s all these kind of numbers out there and figures out there that can be turned into quantitative
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Rafael Marcus: Results using. How many people are going to hire what you asked me in terms of value that they produce, which is something that I do for some companies and then just putting it all together and then you have some simple arithmetic that a CFO should be drooling over
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, so just want to throw out some of those right
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Ray Ferreira: That’s what
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Ray Ferreira: That’s where I was gonna
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Ray Ferreira: Go with it as well. I mean, you know, you need to speak the language of the people who are making the choices on investing in this and and the value chain is a critical part of how employees come into an organization. That’s what they’re there for.
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Ray Ferreira: Your organization is a business model.
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Ray Ferreira: For an for turning their, their work, their relationships, the way they treat customers into value for your organization.
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Ray Ferreira: And so if we look at the brand as an improver of that value or if we look at at the brand as an inspiration for the impact that you can have in the value chain.
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Ray Ferreira: Then we should be, first of all, we should work inductive Lee right and we should build a brand around the value chain, the value that an employee brings in the value chain.
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Ray Ferreira: But we can also then start to go to numerical information that people in the C suite are
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Ray Ferreira: Going to be very concerned about so public image is is definitely something that that large organizations, spend a good amount of time and money managing and so there is that that public image, the
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Ray Ferreira: Attended employer brand tends to look like what we see sometimes in
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Ray Ferreira: On Glassdoor. It doesn’t take long to look around Glassdoor to find people that have let the weeds grow in their public image when it comes to that employer brand, but we can also then quantify it in
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Ray Ferreira: Speed to higher retention rate employee engagement and what that means for absenteeism, what it means for
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Ray Ferreira: Workforce demographics are you getting the people at the right age levels, the right experience levels that you need the right diversity levels that you need and how can the brand.
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Ray Ferreira: Impact that and that’s really important stuff. The quality of hire how
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Ray Ferreira: How quickly can you get time to hire is one thing, but the quality and the frustration of the hiring manager.
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Ray Ferreira: Who sees a slate. That is, you know, mediocre and there and they’re not happy with it, at least by their judgment and and maybe they don’t know what they’re looking for, but
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Ray Ferreira: But you know the the quality of the demand that you have. Do you have a trickle. You have a torrent everybody wants a torrent, but sometimes we don’t have that kind of demand.
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Ray Ferreira: And the employer brand can help boost all of those and and we can look at things where we can use money more efficiently when we look at
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Ray Ferreira: Solutions like employee referral or or just informal referral and and the voice of the employee in public.
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Ray Ferreira: When they talk about or your organization. And if they know how to talk about your organization and what their value or what their part in the value chain is that’s all part of the employer brand.
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Ray Ferreira: I think there are, you know, there are other ways to engage people that we can talk about as we as we go on. But, you know, in terms of
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Ray Ferreira: You know rationalizing or quantifying or we’re getting to the numbers and get into the budget. I think it’s, it’s best to to go to the value chain and speak the language of those people that are making the making the choices.
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Rafael Marcus: And adding a little bit to the quantitative part that you’re mentioning Ray I just want to show people agent. If you want to have that visual of the
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Rafael Marcus: Matrix. I just want to show people a way that are in my primary way of figuring out how much budget, I might need. And, you know, this is just high level. The devils in the details and
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Rafael Marcus: That’s like a entire thing by itself. But what you’re looking at is a way that I try to figure out, you know how much budget will I need and where should it go
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Rafael Marcus: And you know there’s there’s more on this for the future of parts of the series. But basically what you’re looking at is a matrix.
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Rafael Marcus: That essentially four core roles that I would need these are just examples just random, but let’s say I had to hire these groups of people or was
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Rafael Marcus: You know hired as an as a consultant to advise the company on where to how much money to invest in where to invest it
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Rafael Marcus: I would basically look at three metrics and then graph it out like this and will show you later why I graph it out like this. But essentially what I want to know.
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Rafael Marcus: Is for each specific audience that we need to, you know, attract software engineers in Chicago on the top left.
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Rafael Marcus: Sales in New York sales in Chicago accounts Chicago customer support natural
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Rafael Marcus: What is the level of demand in the marketplace. So that’s, you know, third third party and just or macro economic
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Rafael Marcus: What is the demand for those audiences different ways to get that information LinkedIn talent insights is one of them. But sure there’s a million other ways.
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Rafael Marcus: And the other one is more micro economic, which is how much engagement. Do they have with our company right now. Right.
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Rafael Marcus: And both of those things together. What’s the demand and what’s the engagement look help you figure out how aggressive or not aggressive, you need to be in your, you know, both paid and earned media and content generation, all that stuff.
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Rafael Marcus: And that’s basically what this matrix tells us. So what we see here on the size of the circle.
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Rafael Marcus: You see, is the size of the talent pool, which is also a big factor right if there’s a huge talent pool.
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Rafael Marcus: Okay, then you have more people to choose from. You have more, you know, more options. It’s less risky. If you have a very small talent pool.
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Rafael Marcus: You have to be a bit more careful bit more strategic and more, you know, focus and hear what you can see again just set a random example.
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Rafael Marcus: Software engineers in Chicago would be high, very high demand and very low engagement. Maybe this is, you know, a family bank in Chicago in the Midwest, or something as an example.
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Rafael Marcus: And they need engineers, nobody’s ever heard of them or no engineers have really ever heard of them from an Employer branding standpoint, meaning they’re not engaging
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Rafael Marcus: They’re not visiting the website and I’m using LinkedIn, you know, not their glass door page and the demand is very high.
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Rafael Marcus: And the talent pool sizes. A bit moderate on the smaller side but kind of moderate. So what do we have to do to attract them right. We need more budget, we need more resources.
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Rafael Marcus: Maybe we need to hire an agency to do some creative work.
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Rafael Marcus: For that audience specifically compared to accountants in Chicago seems like they know us highly engaged, right, to the right of that that line.
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Rafael Marcus: And demand is so high. So maybe we can get away with just, you know, using our network or just, you know, putting job postings up there.
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Rafael Marcus: And not doing too much on a in terms of investing and that’s how you’re going to figure out the best way to spend your money, which will lead to the highest ROI. So I just wanted to show people this and have them understand kind of part of the process that I go through and
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Rafael Marcus: Trying to get brand.
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Ray Ferreira: More heavy lift. Right, right.
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Exactly.
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Rafael Marcus: Lori, did you have something
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Rafael Marcus: You’re on mute. I think you’re
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Rafael Marcus: still muted.
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Lori Golden: Okay. Hi. Sorry about that. You know, I was that that’s a great graph and really useful. That was an incredible tool to go ahead and get the budget that we needed at your path and certainly can be used in pretty much any scenario.
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Lori Golden: And. And you know what, when you start to understand kind of what the talent landscape looks like what the demand is what the engagement levels are I mean this is a very compelling story.
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Lori Golden: Right, and then very easily and pretty much any anybody in leadership.
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Lori Golden: could appreciate and understand this because at the end of the day talent acquisition gets the most focus right like so when are we getting all these sales people in New York in these accounts in Chicago.
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Lori Golden: That’s the number that’s the metric that everyone’s focused on, you know, and so this is a good. This is a good way to kind of correlate that to why employer brand again matters and why it’s worth spending on and
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Lori Golden: Why it’s such a necessary component to attracting top talent. I mean, it’s you know, it’s the component to it so great, Ray. Do you want to add to to that conversation to that piece.
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Ray Ferreira: No, no, you know, there, there have been various analytical tools that we’ve developed spreadsheets that we share with people, but not on that kind of a kind of a scale, but I always love
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Ray Ferreira: Seeing quadrant diagrams like that to help understand so many dimensions of of what you’re talking about. And I think that one painted a good picture of of demand saw talent pool size and your existing engagement out there in the marketplace. Yep.
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Lori Golden: So, so now that we’ve talked a lot about, okay, getting buy in, you know, you want to champion this in your organization.
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Lori Golden: We know you may have budget or intend to put some budget towards it. And we’ve shown you a little bit high level about
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Lori Golden: You know how to really make that case. And of course, any of these things can we can drive in a lot more detail offline, you know, schedule some time with any one of us.
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Lori Golden: But I want to really get into the discoveries. So now that you’ve got everyone’s buy in and they’ve given you some money like
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Lori Golden: How do you start to figure out what your brand essence is what is the company DNA and identity, how do, how to your internal folks you how to
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Lori Golden: How to people outside. See you rap you spoke a lot in the budget conversation about engagement. How do you determine, you know what that looks like how you’re being perceived in the marketplace.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I’ll I re start with a song because he’s
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Rafael Marcus: So,
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Ray Ferreira: We need to be clear about looking in a quantitative manner and looking in a qualitative manner at what your company is how it’s perceived in the environment, how it’s perceived internally.
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Ray Ferreira: And make sure that we’re if we’re going to build a discovery process that we do the right things at the right time and understand each
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Ray Ferreira: For either our own capabilities and our own budgeting perspective, but also for the information that we want to we want to uncover about people.
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Ray Ferreira: So what I try to do is always remember that this relates to a value chain and a decision process right so
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Ray Ferreira: You know, when in the, in the absence of all other things, and even in the presence of of lots of data, people will make a decision based on gut and so we need to know what that gut is about
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Ray Ferreira: And we need to know what their journey is about how they move through a decision process what elements in a process are checkbox elements and get
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Ray Ferreira: Get looked at and then push decide and what elements are struggled over that that their, you know, their decision is made more difficult if they can’t come to a quick answer.
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Ray Ferreira: On it. And so those are those are the things that that we like to think about, but we also
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Ray Ferreira: You know when when we’re looking for those elements that we want to know about the different candidate groups and the different employee groups that we’re serving the audiences that we’re, we’re looking at
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Ray Ferreira: We want to make sure that we understand the little micro elements that each of them wants to find in in their, in their work.
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Ray Ferreira: So,
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Ray Ferreira: When once we understand what what each segment needs, then we’re ready to to begin modeling a brand. After that, but we want to open the discussion around
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Ray Ferreira: Around that value chain. A lot of a lot of organizations, make the mistake of selling, what would be called HR deliverables and getting just a little bit too.
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Ray Ferreira: Rational about what they’re offering and your brand is an opportunity city to bring out slogans and taglines around HR deliverables. And so you want your discovery process to dig deep, for those things that will help people understand what it feels like to work in your
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Ray Ferreira: Organization and will help them understand
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Ray Ferreira: Almost on a I call it a Patrick Lindsey oni five dysfunctions of a team level. So we’re and I’ll, I’ll give you the reference information on that but but we want to look at it what it is that that inspires people
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Ray Ferreira: In finding what what they want to achieve in their life in knowing what a team can help them achieve together with other people. And then in understanding how that can change the world.
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Ray Ferreira: And so a lot of the discovery that I work on the qualitative every day that I work on tends to go in, into this me we world model and and asks people
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Ray Ferreira: You know, what is it that they’re looking for. What is it that we can do together. And then, how, how can that impact the world, but it’s not about HR deliverables. It’s about you seeing me for who I am.
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Ray Ferreira: It’s about us working together in a way that’s comfortable and then it’s it’s knowing that we’re changing things for the greater good.
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Now,
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Rafael Marcus: I’m sorry, Raven.
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Ray Ferreira: No, go ahead.
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Rafael Marcus: Um, so yeah, I mean, just add on to what racing, um, you know, you really need to understand
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Rafael Marcus: How people feel inside your company. Right. And unfortunately I’m going through that process. I’M SURE. Ray has tons of stories around this, you’re going to
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Rafael Marcus: evoke some very negative feeling sometimes right and it’s important that you don’t just hear the good stuff that you also hear the bad stuff.
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Rafael Marcus: One so that you know what a shame messaging so that people are prepared properly when they do come into the organization and that they don’t have buyer’s remorse or feel bait and switch
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Rafael Marcus: So really, really important to do that discovery stuff. The way that I usually approach, it is kind of like a pyramid. You think of a
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Rafael Marcus: Just a pyramid at the bottom. The foundation. The base is the company’s values.
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Rafael Marcus: Which should be driving everything right, a company’s values is what should really be driving people’s decision making within a company. And if your
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Rafael Marcus: If your behavior is being dictated, in a way, or at least influenced by the values of the company, which they should be. And then those are the things that are going to kind of create the feeling
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Rafael Marcus: Of of working there. And so above the values are kind of the, the proof points of people living those values within
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Ray Ferreira: Within
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Rafael Marcus: A company. So what I do is I similar to re go deep and try to understand from companies, you know, usually through like focus groups and interviewing and serve is what are the proof points that show that this company really does live those values.
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Rafael Marcus: And and doesn’t also read some of the negative stuff as well. And then from there you can basically design your employee value proposition pillars and I think
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Rafael Marcus: At least was asking about, you know, how do you build your employer value proposition and it comes from first values then proof points that are real.
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Rafael Marcus: And then you can kind of form the pillars. I usually try to infer three but kind of depends on the situation, a few pillars.
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Rafael Marcus: Of basically based on the proof points that come from your values, what is it that you offer to the world.
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Rafael Marcus: To to basically want to come work here. Right. And it’s not as it’s not for everybody. Right.
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Rafael Marcus: So for the people that you would like to have come to work here. What is it that you offer beyond a job right, not the what. But what is the why. Why you exist.
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Rafael Marcus: Why you do what you do and the how your how you do your do your culture, the technology use the mindset of leadership what employees do together to connect and collaborate
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Rafael Marcus: Those are the things that will help basically build your MVP. And then once you have your EP pillars were up that basically will
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Rafael Marcus: Tell you what your brand is your employer brand, right, that you can kind of summarize it into three words and then you have your employer brand, um,
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Rafael Marcus: But yeah, I also just wanted to quickly answer Mary’s question about the Home Depot analogy. So you’re asking how they would change their employer brand to attract tech folk
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Rafael Marcus: It’s a, it’s a couple things. And it’s obviously a very big question. But they would start with
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Rafael Marcus: Basically what Ray was saying is this deep, deep discovery in the areas right that they need people so they want awesome tech people go to the current tech team.
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Rafael Marcus: Leadership, all the way down to individual contributors, talk to them and basically using the pyramid method or, you know, raised
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Rafael Marcus: You know, a fantastic way of doing it as well. Um, figure out what the employer brand or the evening, P is for that group and then
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Rafael Marcus: Invest aggressively if you’re home depot and you’re in a different situation than you are. If you’re a B2B company or startup that not many people have heard of
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Rafael Marcus: Because Home Depot has a brand that everyone in the United States already has some sort of association.
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Rafael Marcus: So they’re they’re arguably up against more because going from nobody knows me too. Oh, this company. Sounds awesome is much easier than going from people think of us as hammers and nails to
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Rafael Marcus: Tech supergiant platform. And basically what they need to do is they need to come up with real authentic storytelling and content that comes out of what we just talked about.
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Rafael Marcus: And then they need to invest aggressively they need to make sure guarantee that the story and messaging that they that is a reflective of their brand.
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Rafael Marcus: Not just to raise point not just taglines but actual like deep content that reflects the why and the how the brand.
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Rafael Marcus: And they need to guarantee that that messaging gets in front of the people they needed to. They can’t just hope for it. They can just put it on their career page and hope that that’s enough because they get, you know, 10 million people a day on their career page.
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Rafael Marcus: Isn’t the right cable.
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Rafael Marcus: Probably not. If engineers thing you know hammers and nails and it’s probably not the right people coming to your career page so doesn’t matter in for that specific audience.
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Rafael Marcus: So there needs to be proactive. Right. So if they’re in the top left corner quadrant of the graph. I just show
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Rafael Marcus: Which is probably the case for a company like Home Depot and then
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Rafael Marcus: You know they need to invest aggressively in the storytelling and the promotion of the storytelling and essentially what they need to do is they need to shift perception in the mind of the user. And that is not done overnight.
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Rafael Marcus: That’s done over a long period of time. Very, very strategically and then maybe after a few months, or however long
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Rafael Marcus: They might start reaping the rewards and getting higher response rates on LinkedIn or other places that they reach out to they might get higher referrals and, you know, that kind of stuff happens as a result. But, you know, Mary, I hope, I hope that answers your question wasn’t too long.
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Ray Ferreira: It’s hard this is this is a tough part to to explain because there’s so many dimensions that you want to be looking at
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Ray Ferreira: We’ve got a multi kind of a multi dimensional process for for for discovery workshops that first requires that we understand some of the challenges that exist in the in the client company but I shared
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Ray Ferreira: And I think it’s, it’s a handout that you’re going to share with with participants, one of the elements is a is a kind of an
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Ray Ferreira: Organic model that has the kind of the, the roots to the tip of the tree, it’s a it’s a tree model for for discovery of of the VP.
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Ray Ferreira: And it goes to the rational and the emotional side so that we understand what of those elements are highly emotional and that we have to talk in an open way and that people will make decisions based on
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Ray Ferreira: And then what are the rational elements that people will check boxes on but that’s, you know, one of any number of elements that we would go through in a discovery workshop, whether it’s a one day discovery workshop or a multi day workshop
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Lori Golden: Let me just mention
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Lori Golden: To everybody online. We are going to be providing you that that tree document as a takeaway, you’ll actually walk away with something that you can, you know, kind of bring to these conversations, or at least start wrapping your head around how you’re going to strategically.
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Lori Golden: Kind of champion this project. So, so please do stay on the line, till the end. I also want to point out too, that this is the first part of a three part series on employer brand.
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Lori Golden: And while we’re really diving into by in why it matters, giving like some basic high level stuff, how you can go to your leaders and your company and and get the traction, you need
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Lori Golden: To champion something like this internally and then what does that discovery process look like
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Lori Golden: Part to me we dive in deeper in each one part two, we’re going to talk about crafting that messaging getting making sure that everybody in the company knows what that that that
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Lori Golden: Elevator Pitch looks like everybody can intelligently represent the company as an employer brand.
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Lori Golden: And and really building out some exciting and engaging meaningful content around your employer brand once that messaging is is is concise.
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Lori Golden: And then the third part is, is the most fun. It’s about amplifying the brand all the great fun events, the bold campaigns. We’ve got some amazing stories.
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Lori Golden: I’m going to just going to say Trojan unicorn. You’ll thank me later. You want to hop on the third one is we’ve got some really cool experiences to share with you and different guests in each one as well.
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Lori Golden: So I just wanted to throw that out there before. More people drop off please stay for the handout for The Takeaway and do join us for the next two as well there every Thursday at noon. So I’m going to get kind of shift into the next part.
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Lori Golden: Which is and if you have any more questions, throw them in the chat and Adrian will get them answered for you.
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Lori Golden: But I wanted to talk about a little bit about ownership. So, you know, we haven’t really touched on this yet, although we did throw the pull out there, but
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Lori Golden: Who are the stakeholders in developing the employer brand like who has to be involved here.
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Lori Golden: Does it sit with marketing does it sit with HR and talent acquisition, the people on the front lines with candidates like what does that have to look like to be successful in terms of, you know, partnership and collaboration.
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Lori Golden: I’m going to start with RAF because I know that we’ve, you know this this was specific to us that you I path as I was growing up talent acquisition
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Lori Golden: And I joined the company when they were very small and early on I was able to make the decision to bring employer brand under talent acquisition, because it’s
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Lori Golden: To me it was a very clear correlation, but I’d like to hear from you guys in terms of what your thoughts are on you know how, what role does marketing play and branding plan, how does everybody, work, play nice in the sandbox there.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah.
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Rafael Marcus: That’s uh yeah it’s a big question and not necessarily
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Rafael Marcus: Easy for everyone to execute on the answer to it. So I’ll explain from my side, and I’m excited to hear from read what he thinks.
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Rafael Marcus: And it goes really in line with what Emily, one of the the guests wrote about being a recruiter and pushing for Employer branding, but hasn’t built a case before and I guess it also goes to Christina’s question about, like, when to do this. So Christina answer really quickly yesterday.
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Lori Golden: Early
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I mean as early as you can really
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Rafael Marcus: Um, you know, you want to be ready before any fires do come out that you can put them out.
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Rafael Marcus: But also being proactive. Now of course if you’re a hyper growth startup, you’re in a different situation than a company like Home Depot or an established firm or or a brand new company that is really just the founders.
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Rafael Marcus: So it does depend, but the overarching answer is similarly to market like we should think about it like when marketing ever asked, like, when should we start marketing.
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Rafael Marcus: The answer. And the same thing with recruiting. Like, when do you recruit, you’re always want to have pipeline. Right.
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Rafael Marcus: So it’s not different than really any of those things and to Emily.
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Rafael Marcus: You know, your question makes me think about, you know, a way to answer Lori’s question kind of in the same way, which is
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Rafael Marcus: Ideally you have buy in from the absolute top right. So, at the last company. I was at UI path which, you know, again, I got a seven figure budget from
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Rafael Marcus: The CEO. I had meetings with, um, and, you know, he was very accessible so not always the case. So Sherry huge company you know hundred thousand employees. Plus, it’s not too easy, of course.
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Rafael Marcus: But the higher you go, the more success, you’ll have, um, now Emily and building, you know, building a business plan.
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Rafael Marcus: You know, we gave some some conditions. We don’t have enough time to like really go into details. That’s something that I do offer you know as a consultant
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Rafael Marcus: But, you know, try to quantify it right and turn it into a positive ROI for the business. And that’s going to be the you know the true north
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Rafael Marcus: Um, but, you know, I remember when going into you. I pass and starting to build the employer brand. The top people that I wanted involved were the chief product officer, the chief technology officer, the chief marketing officer.
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Rafael Marcus: And you know the the chief people officer was essentially kind of like my one of my managers.
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Rafael Marcus: And if they are bought in
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Rafael Marcus: People will listen and do what they are told. And that’s basically was my kind of drive forward is get buying at the top to go top down.
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Rafael Marcus: In addition to getting buy in at the bottom line bottom up. So I also
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Rafael Marcus: You know, was in touch with some of the individual contributor engineers and sales people that we, you know, the audience’s that we need to hire
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Rafael Marcus: And there are the front line hiring managers, because they’re the ones. They’re like the mayor’s in a country right they’re the ones on the ground that actually have to really deal with the shit.
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Rafael Marcus: Versus hearing about it and making big decisions, you know, hiring managers are the ones that are actually feeling pain.
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Rafael Marcus: So working with hiring managers, um, you know, and creating relationships with them. I will get them to encourage their employees to
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Rafael Marcus: Participate and that’s what you need. You need to include your contributors badly for discovery and research and focus groups and surveys
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Rafael Marcus: And then you need the messaging to also be consistently coming from the top basically creating an environment where this is the direction the entire team is going so do your part. Listen to your hiring manager and then everyone is kind of on the same page.
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Rafael Marcus: And you know that should lead to a more fluid experience. And, you know, doing discovery and getting buying and then you might even if you have the top people at each function involved. You could even get budget from them.
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Ray Ferreira: You know, so
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Rafael Marcus: Right, and I think that
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Ray Ferreira: Yeah, yeah. So in in working with with big organizations and I see the questions in chat about, you know what, at what point does a small organization start and
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Ray Ferreira: Raphael, great, great point. We start marketing from day one, from the moment that you think you’re going to need to hire somebody have to start to adjust the impression
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Ray Ferreira: And that may be by one on one contact with three or four candidates that you’re going to meet this week, or it may be
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Ray Ferreira: You know, developing some sort of a message that goes out into the public or a way that you appear in public, but in engaging people on the inside. In process. Most of my work has been with mid sized organizations of
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Ray Ferreira: 50 to 500 I’m calling that mid size it’s defined a small but
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Ray Ferreira: And and then you know fortune 500 organizations with thousands and in each of those we tend to look for both a kind of a horizontal
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Ray Ferreira: Broadening of perspective behavioral economics tells us that there’s this heuristic called the IKEA effect.
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Ray Ferreira: And that is if I’m engaged in building something I’m going to like that product better. So what we would look to do is engage as many of the story owners as possible around an organization at a high level.
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Ray Ferreira: You know, those, those people that own you know the sales and marketing those people that
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Ray Ferreira: that own the public image those people that own manufacturing and and research and development and so on and get them engaged in developing that story. You also want to hear from people. And this is where in a marketing environment.
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Ray Ferreira: Where I was it tended to to get difficult because we were accustomed to making wonderful stories and at first you need to dig for the real stories.
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Ray Ferreira: If an employer brand is going to be real. You need to understand what’s going on. The, the positives and the negatives.
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Ray Ferreira: And so you’re looking for stories of success from your high performing high potentials and and get a good group of them together that can can help build some stories and and provide some insights
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Ray Ferreira: But you also want to hear from those people that don’t feel
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Ray Ferreira: Like they’re understood or engaged as much as they should be. And sometimes you find those in in your diversity groups and sometimes you find those in your younger employees. Your newer employees.
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Ray Ferreira: And you go to those those stories as well. And then we need to pull that pull that together into a cohesive story. And one of the ways to do that is to kind of
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Ray Ferreira: work toward a message map and that is kind of a table that organizes your segments, your different types of employees or different types of candidates and the, the kinds of messaging that might hit those people at any different given time in the in the journey so
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Lori Golden: That’s awesome. I want to get. We’ve got some really great questions coming through the chat at one address them.
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Lori Golden: Yeah, measuring a question about and I want to end with Brian’s question about kind of what comes first, the chicken or the egg. He asked specifically
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Lori Golden: Though, so can we create good employees through great synergy or do great employees make good great synergy. I just want to go out with that. So if you guys wanted
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Lori Golden: To tell other questions that have come through Matty’s question.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I’ll take Maddie is really quickly so totally understand it understand
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Rafael Marcus: Like I totally understand. It’s totally understandable, what you’re asking here that it’s overwhelming to figure out how to best measure success of branding efforts and where to start.
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Rafael Marcus: Um, any suggestions on resources to help off the right foot. So, um, you know, forgive me on the obviously a little biased, but I really do a lot of sorry what’s up.
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Lori Golden: I was gonna say frame the question so that when we’re answering it that ever videos in case they
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Lori Golden: Yeah yeah yeah
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, just read it out loud so um so Maddie, um, you know, and for everybody else. It’s a great question. It’s probably on a lot of people’s minds. I’m a bit biased. I’m both by experience. And because I really do believe in it.
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Rafael Marcus: But let’s assume that most people here in ta ta teams are using LinkedIn to source candidates and often
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Rafael Marcus: Not always, but we often see the more passive candidates are often a bit higher quality, not always. Sometimes applicants are fantastic.
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Rafael Marcus: But generally, the greater population is going to be passive not in this moment, as we know, things are changing at the moment. But generally, and when we get back to normal.
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Rafael Marcus: Um, what I would say. Maddie is the main metric that I use. Well, there’s to my true north of did this. Is this working or not.
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Rafael Marcus: Is did my email response rates go up across the recruiters for the audience’s that I’m targeting
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Rafael Marcus: And in the next webinar we’re going to go into, like, how to bring this to market. And I’m going to go into way more details with that. But basically arm is my in mail response rates going up.
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Rafael Marcus: And it is, it’s probably a result of the other key metric that really matters which is engagement.
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Rafael Marcus: So are you generating engagement with the right audiences. Make sure you can be able to prove it, which is why I love LinkedIn, the reporting on sponsored content on LinkedIn is amazing because it gives you what companies, people are clicking from
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Rafael Marcus: What job titles, they have what your experience. They are. It’s the demographic information is fantastic. So you can
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Rafael Marcus: Actually align that to the way your recruiters are performing, which again in LinkedIn recruiter, you can see what companies are they in mailing what
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Rafael Marcus: Positions, are they feeling that kind of stuff. And essentially what you can say is, is the is the engagement hitting the right audience and if it is
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Rafael Marcus: The recruiters email response rates should be going up and that’s a statistic that is typically significant
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Rafael Marcus: Which I know from having been on the back end at LinkedIn seeing all the data there.
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Rafael Marcus: So we know that more engagement leads to get a response rates. So my recommendation would be to increase engagement with the key target super narrow audience that you need to get more responses from so and coming to
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Rafael Marcus: Somebody else asked the question, Caitlin asked a question about buy in and having a hard time it wasn’t in the shadows in the Q AMP a
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Rafael Marcus: Having a hard time getting buy in and getting budget and asked. She basically asked what steps can be taken to, you know, do a smaller thing to prove success.
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Rafael Marcus: It goes hand in hand with what I was just saying if you can get a little bit of budget to drive to a super, super narrow audience.
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Rafael Marcus: And create engagement that’s meaningful and valuable by providing good content that’s interesting, not just we have jobs and we’re great culture and like, not that. But we have great technology and here’s what our people do with it and
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Rafael Marcus: Then you can you can track did this increase response rates or did it increase applications, if that’s what your
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Rafael Marcus: CFO or chief people officer has a metric in mind that that’s the number that they want to see.
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Rafael Marcus: And sometimes you’ll have to dance with you know the people in charge. And if, even though you know engagement. The most important thing, but they say applicants. It’s the most boring thing. Okay. Then we show the increase in applicants and giving her
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Rafael Marcus: Budget, um,
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Rafael Marcus: So, so, yeah. So that, that’s my answer to you, Maddie and Caitlin. I hope that makes sense.
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Ray Ferreira: Yeah, on that.
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Ray Ferreira: On that note, I mean the challenge with going small isn’t so much on getting the discovery done and getting something put in place. It’s measuring the results from it.
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Ray Ferreira: Right. And if the results are going to be small scale, you don’t have the numbers for for for quantitative results that you can say
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Ray Ferreira: Without a doubt this this improve what is not just a vanity metric. We didn’t just get more followers. From this we got more candidates, not just more engagement.
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Ray Ferreira: So you may need to create some performance indicators that tolerate a little bit of anecdotal discussion with hiring managers with, you know, with HR leaders and so on.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I always say that um the data that you’ll show or whatever should be seen as directional
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Rafael Marcus: Right. It’s not perfect and it never will be. And probably, if you’re gonna start smaller like we’re talking about Maddie and Caitlin
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Rafael Marcus: I’m you know the numbers aren’t going to be like crazy high or, you know, up into the right like crazy from a small test, but just multiply it by like 1000 or whatever the number is. And, you know,
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Rafael Marcus: In that direction. All right. And then you can imagine what it looks like inflated and
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Lori Golden: So let’s wrap up with Brian’s question because I think it’s a great one. And I want to remind everybody to come back next Thursday.
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Lori Golden: At noon we are going to be following up with an email with the registration information also you if you’re on this call, you’ll be getting a copy of the recording from it as well.
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Lori Golden: Feel free to share within your networks and bring folks to the next one, too, because we, this is a great conversation and the more interesting questions we get, the more interesting. The conversation gets. So on that note, Brian asked again, real quickly.
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Lori Golden: Do we create good employees with a high synergy environment, or the other way around. Is it the
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Lori Golden: Is it the good people create the highest energy, environment, I definitely think both of course
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Lori Golden: But I have spoken to many, many surveyed many, many people and have experienced this in my own regard that I could you know I am willing to give more of myself 110% of myself.
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Lori Golden: You know, in an environment where I’m trusted I’m empowered, where there is that synergy and and very tribal team environment almost versus the old school kind of hierarchical
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Lori Golden: Pyramid style model where people everybody feels like they’re immersed and engaged in what the purpose of the company is
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Lori Golden: So, so
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Lori Golden: Many people can say, hey, I’ve given 70% did fine in my job, but I wasn’t completely and totally fully vested
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Lori Golden: Because I didn’t feel that the synergy of the company was there the culture was cemented and and that you know that engagement existed.
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Lori Golden: But then I went to accompany be and gave 120% of myself because those things did exist. So that’s my passionate answer. It’s kind of one of the things that I’ve
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Lori Golden: I’ve tried it and it’s not some it’s very difficult to measure, of course, but it’s something that I’ve, you know, kept close tabs on throughout my experience if rapper right want to add to that.
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Ray Ferreira: Um, yeah. So, so, yeah, it’s, it’s a little bit of both. If you, if you use your employer brand as a recruitment brand.
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Ray Ferreira: You’re going to, you’re going to have a belief that you need to replace the group of people that you’re inside right now.
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Ray Ferreira: In order to improve your organization. And that’s why it’s so important to recognize the full scope.
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Ray Ferreira: Of an employer brand is to engage and create enthusiasm, not just rah rah rah, but also understand the challenges that employees have and demonstrate that we can move beyond those challenges together.
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Ray Ferreira: So, so that improvement in internal engagement that that connection between, you know, between an employee and the value chain that they serve.
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Ray Ferreira: Is going to get that organic improvement in your organization. Meanwhile,
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Ray Ferreira: Building on that your stories going outward are going to be are going to attract the right people. You, you, you may not hire all people. You can’t be attracted to everyone, but at least you’ll be attracting
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Ray Ferreira: And retaining the right people in your organization. And that’s going to have a long term move, but it’s it’s right steering an ocean liner. So it takes time to do all of that.
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Ray Ferreira: Bottom line is we have to talk to all audiences and talk about the right things.
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Ray Ferreira: I don’t know if that helps.
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Ray Ferreira: A great question. Big
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Rafael Marcus: Last thought of.
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Rafael Marcus: This road racing and this is might be on some people’s minds Employer branding does not change Glassdoor reviews.
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Rafael Marcus: Last reviews change because of how the company treats its people. So if somebody comes to you and says, you’re in charge of Employer branding maker Glassdoor reviews go up and tell them you you can
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Rafael Marcus: Basically, the day after
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Lori Golden: So I want to thank our panelists. Thank you guys so much raft and Ray.
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Lori Golden: Ray, for joining. Thank you. All of our attendees who joined again next Thursday. We’re here at noon, we’re going to dive in on the fun stuff the messaging, the content creation.
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Lori Golden: All kinds of creative stories for you. We’re also going to be sending out a follow up email with a raise. Take away the
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Lori Golden: Discovery tree. And we actually I think we may drop it in the chat as well.
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Lori Golden: Where everyone will also be getting registration information for next week’s really appreciate you joining. If you have specific questions jot them down and we’ll get to them next week. This has been fun and I look forward to doing it again. Thank you all.
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Ray Ferreira: Thanks, everyone.
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Thanks, everyone.
