Zoomside Chat, Pt. 3 of 3: Amplifying Your Employer Brand

Our mini series on employer branding wrapped up on amplifying your employer brand. We dove into how to market your employer brand across your internal and external networks. 

Employer branding experts Rafael Marcus and James Ellis led the chat with our very own Lori Golden, Head of Elastic Recruiting at Comeet. 

You can always catch up on the 3-part series with our recordings and transcripts: 

1. Discovering your employer brand
2. Crafting messaging and content for your employer brand
3. Marketing your employer brand (you’re here!)

Recording: Marketing Your Employer Brand

Highlights on Amplifying Your Brand

You can register for upcoming Zoomside Chats here. We bring together HR experts to discuss how to be the best employer and recruiter you can be — with lots of time dedicated to Q&A and discussion with attendees. We hope to see you there soon!

Connect with our panelists on LinkedIn:

• Rafael Marcus, Owner, RBM Consulting and formerly Head of Employer Brand at UiPath
• James Ellis, Director of Employer Brand at Universum
• Lori Golden, Head of Elastic Recruiting at Comeet

To continue diving into all things “employer brand,” check out James’ podcast The Talent Case and newsletter EB Headlines. 

Marketing on a budget was a recurring topic in the Zoomside Chat. But amplifying your employer brand doesn’t have to be about spending a lot of money, James said. In his time at Groupon, the focus was on answering: How do you build an army of advocates from within our company? People were the primary marketing resources, James said, and spread the word. Other ideas for marketing employer brand with a low budget: 

• Foster a company culture that gives employees permission to share their experiences working at your company. 
• Provide employees with headshots, LinkedIn banners, and social media-friendly imagery.
• Circulate articles about your company or your industry for employees to share. 
• Create content that represents you – feel free to be scrappy and think creatively. You don’t need to produce a Superbowl commercial for it to resonate. Rafael shared two video examples from his time at UIPath. James recommended GIPHY for creative gifs.

Rafael recommended setting a budget based on your level of demand and engagement. 

Rafael then suggested to set your marketing plan based on that budget. Mark A for awareness campaigns, E for engagement campaigns, and L for lead-generating campaigns. 

Your careers page is a crucial part of amplifying your employer brand. Make sure your careers page answers a candidate’s questions:

• Why do you exist as a company?
• Who are you as an employer?
• What do I get by joining your company?
• What is the company culture like?
• What are the benefits like? 

Finally, Foundation Medicine was cited for its fantastic Talent Brand Toolkit page, which shares its employer brand.

Transcript: Marketing Your Employer Brand

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Comeet Webinar: Hello everyone joining today. Happy Thursday.

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Comeet Webinar: Welcome to our zoom side chat. This is the third in a three part series on employer brand. Thank you for joining. We’re just gonna wait a minute or two for people to trickle in.

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Comeet Webinar: If you’re just joining

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Comeet Webinar: Today, this is part three of a three part series on employer brand. You don’t need to have attended the first two

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Comeet Webinar: And we’re going to dive into amplifying or marketing your employer brand. Today we’re going to kick off in a minute or two. Once everyone has joined

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Comeet Webinar: And so just hold tight. And while we’re waiting to get started. Please start to think about your questions you may have for our panelists on amplifying your employer brand.

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Comeet Webinar: And we’re going to try something different than we have in past weeks if you’ve attended prior zoom side chats just enter your questions in the Q AMP a function. You can see it on the bottom of your screen.

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James Ellis: You really should charge people to show to the beat before of the meeting because that’s more fun.

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Comeet Webinar: I mean that’s that’s a

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James Ellis: That is a two drink minimum level of conversation.

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Comeet Webinar: That’s true.

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Comeet Webinar: You guys just messed up do if I’m just

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Comeet Webinar: Checking before this. Hi, Tammy. Great to see you to see you. All right, let’s just give it one more minute while people trickle in. Thanks again for joining. We’re talking

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Comeet Webinar: About employer brand today and how to amplify or market your employer brand and like

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Comeet Webinar: Someone just posted now. Thank you for thinking of your questions we thrive off of discussion with with you during these calls. So please, the more the merrier.

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Comeet Webinar: Try and put your questions into the Q AMP a function at the bottom of your screen that will help us get to as many questions as we can.

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James Ellis: Mentioned a worksheet last time was me.

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Rafael Marcus: Know that was from part one, James, which I think

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Rafael Marcus: I forget my homework.

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James Ellis: Suddenly I’m back in class in my underwear going on. I forgot to study.

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Rafael Marcus: Oh, no, no. Okay.

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Comeet Webinar: I got it.

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Comeet Webinar: Yeah.

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Rafael Marcus: You’re switching men.

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Comeet Webinar: Okay, so let’s wait one more second for people to join. Thanks everyone who’s here we’re talking amplifying your employer brand.

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Comeet Webinar: Today we’re really excited to dive in. And just one last time to reiterate, we really thrive off of having us be a discussion with you. So please drop any questions you may have for our panelists into the Q AMP. A and we’ll try and get to them.

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Comeet Webinar: Will try and get to them all, if we can, we have about an hour here.

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James Ellis: If we

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Comeet Webinar: If we like them.

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Comeet Webinar: All right, Laura, over to you.

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Lori Golden: Alright, I’m muted.

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James Ellis: We can hear you.

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Lori Golden: Okay. Hi. Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us. Sorry about that.

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Lori Golden: We as Adrian said we’re doing part three of our three part employer brand series.

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Lori Golden: We have our guests here, Raphael Marcus and James Ellis and they are going to both experts in employer brand in their own right and i will let them momentarily introduce themselves and tell you a little bit about their background.

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Lori Golden: I am Lori golden I’m the head of complete elastic recruiting compete is a next generation applicant tracking system very collaborative in nature.

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Lori Golden: Focused on automation and efficiency as well as collaborating together and the complete elastic recruiting is an extension of your recruiting function.

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Lori Golden: We as a team can help you out as you scale your company in rather than hiring an internal team, we have

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Lori Golden: Kind of an augmented version of a recruiting team that can step in very simply very easily and help you scale so

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Lori Golden: Any questions about that, feel free to reach out to me offline. And then I’m going to turn it over, and we’re going to introduce both gyms and Raphael.

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Lori Golden: And we’ll get to the topic at hand as Adrian said please send your questions over in the Q AMP a format.

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Lori Golden: In that tab on the bottom there, so that we can make sure we get to everybody’s questions.

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Lori Golden: If we don’t, again, all of us and our contact information will be provided and you can reach out to any one of us after the fact.

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Lori Golden: And then we’re going to pick it up our next topic is going to be diversity inclusion. I just want to give everybody a little tease on that.

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Lori Golden: And we’re going to dive in on some good content in that area as well. So I’m going to go ahead and turn it over to James first because he’s next to me and the box on the top of my screen. And who are you, James.

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James Ellis: I have no idea. I’ve lost my marbles.

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James Ellis: Player brand. Wait, that’s the thing. What do you talk about. No, I am James is I am employer brand nerd.

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James Ellis: I am now started to tell people that if you search in the words employer brand nerd. I show up as many as seven different times in the first screen of Google. So if Google says I am that I must be that

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James Ellis: So there we are. I have a podcast called the telecast and I have a newsletter called employer brand news.

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James Ellis: It’s in the note in the chat it. So if you want to sign up for that sort of stuff you do that otherwise. I just love Employer branding work for university we talk about employer brand with data, which is a lot of fun, but

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James Ellis: That’s, I can’t wait to talk about activation and getting people excited about employer brand or

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Rafael Marcus: Green.

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Rafael Marcus: Yes, thank you. So Hey everybody I’m Raphael I’m some of you guys may have seen me in the last couple of fireside chat so great to see you again.

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Rafael Marcus: And just some background on me. I used to work at LinkedIn and I was selling Employer branding basically strategy and media.

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Rafael Marcus: Just small chance I sold to somebody on the web right now. And that was a great experience. You know, I worked with hundreds of teams learned a lot and got a lot of exposure. And that was kind of my

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Rafael Marcus: Kind of PhD and you know from marketing. And so, and then I actually switched to the client side after LinkedIn and

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Rafael Marcus: Lead Employer branding at a extremely hyper growth company called you I path where me and Lori med

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Rafael Marcus: And I basically let Employer branding there. And after two years there. I decided it was time for me to go off on my own. So now I own my own consultancy

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Rafael Marcus: Basically called RBS consulting, which focuses on player branding, of course, and a few other things but Employer branding is really, really, the sweet spot. So thanks everybody for coming and excited to talk about a activating are promoting the employer brand.

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Lori Golden: Awesome. Wonderful. So in the first part of the series, we talked about discovery and even understanding who you are as a company what what the big Why is

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Lori Golden: Sorry, my dog is going nuts. My new co workers at the second one we talked about how to kind of boil that down and distill that down to some messaging that’s meaningful and that’s going to attract the right kind of talent.

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Lori Golden: To your company. And now we’re going to talk about my favorite stuff, which is really amplifying that brand and and how you can do that internally externally and who can be part of that and some interesting

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Lori Golden: And creative ways to let companies let sorry candidates know who you are. So first question is, so once you’ve kind of boiled down to that messaging. What’s the first step. Let me do you have to launch internally before you can go outside and what does that look like. Go ahead, James.

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James Ellis: Yeah, I take a funny approaches. So I when I ran group hunts employer brand. You know, it’s a good sized company 6000 people 16 countries global footprint.

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James Ellis: I had zero budget. I spent 400 $400 my first year and it was very much a guerrilla marketing campaign. So I took a very MacGyver ask approach to these things. And it was

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James Ellis: It wasn’t. How do I drop 770 thousand dollars on this channel, or how do I make 4000 videos. It was really about

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James Ellis: How do I make this a compelling conversation. Most of the materials. I looked at was not about employer brand is a big monolithic thing you push out into the world. It was really about how do you develop

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James Ellis: Kind of an internal volunteer army. How do you build a movement inside your company, such

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James Ellis: As people who are

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James Ellis: A rock kind of thickness stuff and already want to play ball with you, they

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James Ellis: They step up they speak up and they engage with you when you work with them other people around them, see what’s going on. They go, oh, that’s interesting. Let me play ball with you.

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James Ellis: And let met slowly snowballs into something bigger. And then from there you can kind of direct it to given spot.

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James Ellis: But really, I’m a big believer in there’s no set things such thing as a set strategy you work with the materials in the context that you have

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James Ellis: If you’re a, I don’t know, pick it a Facebook or Google and Amazon a massive company of deeply well funded startup and you have stacks of cash. I say go with the cash. I love spending cash.

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James Ellis: If I have it. But in cases that are most of us are in, we have no cash. So we have to think about what are the resources we have at our disposal for me it was people

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James Ellis: If you are a ecommerce company what’s going on the box. What’s on the tape on the box. How are you pushing messages out, I got a box from Target last week, and it has

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James Ellis: Target tape on it. I’m like, well, it says target com like, Yeah, that’s great. But I had to go to Target com to place the order. So this is not new information. This is completely wasted opportunity for somebody to say

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James Ellis: I will pay to print some stuff and some tape what you’re buying already to put my meshes out message out there. So what do you have your disposal. It’s. Step one.

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah and you know I don’t disagree with anything. Jim said, I think he’s

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Rafael Marcus: He’s right, one point that I’ll

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Rafael Marcus: Have one point that all kind of elaborate on is every situation is different.

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Rafael Marcus: Which you know basically is what James said, I do come from a bit of a different mindset as James, and this might be because I was on the sales side first.

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Rafael Marcus: And maybe that influenced me to think, think a little bit more about the money than then maybe other others might have, but

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Rafael Marcus: The way that I think about, you know, the first thing that you have to do is, yeah, I think what James said is really important is you know who’s around to participate and to amplify for you.

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Rafael Marcus: It’s great to identify those people and that can often be the same people who, for example, are part of our culture council or if that exists in your company or an

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Rafael Marcus: Experience, that kind of thing. People who live and breathe the company inside now are probably the lowest hanging fruit in terms of wants to participate. And, you know, help you

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Rafael Marcus: Promote content right and that’s why social media is so powerful and tools like elevate or dynamic signal or, or, you know, what have you.

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Rafael Marcus: Are really really strong for getting you know ambassadors to communicate out now.

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Rafael Marcus: Um, I do think about, you know, if I was coming in to consult, or, you know, if I was leaving Employer branding at a company. My mind would go to, you know, how much budget. Can I get a you know how big it can be. And, you know, how do I use that budget strategically.

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Rafael Marcus: So, Adrian, if you don’t mind, pulling up a, you know, one of the visuals. The first visual I showed in the first webinar was basically an approach that I take to figure out how much budget, I might need.

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Rafael Marcus: So for those of you who saw this again. Just a reminder that I look at three major data points. What’s the demand of the current audience that we’re audiences that we’re trying to attract just generally demand.

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Rafael Marcus: Which is you see on the Y axis going up and down to the higher up. They are the about audience, the higher the demand is

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Rafael Marcus: And then How engaged are they with us right which you can get from your LinkedIn rep. If you want to use LinkedIn as a proxy.

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Rafael Marcus: Or take a look at, you know, other platforms or sites, you’re on and just see what you know what activity is like, and it’s going to be different for different roles right so if you’re if you

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Rafael Marcus: Are at Home Depot. You know, you might have a strong brand with, you know, retail sales people but software engineers, maybe not so much right um

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Rafael Marcus: And so using this can figure out how much budget you need

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Rafael Marcus: And then once you have budget, you can actually optimize. Thank you. Adrian for reading my mind, you can actually optimize by applying different funnels.

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Rafael Marcus: Based on the different situation you’re in with different audiences and just for clarity that a here means awareness. The he means engagement and Ellen means leads

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Rafael Marcus: And what you can see is basically that you know I’ve determined. Okay, I need this much budget for these audiences and now I’ll be able to figure out how much money should I spend with awareness for software engineers from the top left.

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Rafael Marcus: That amount of money for awareness is going to be higher or more take more of my budget. Then in the bottom right where you see the purple audience, which I forget who it was, but you can see the a the awareness isn’t even

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Rafael Marcus: Being highlighted, which means I don’t need to spend anything there because we have enough engagement strong enough engagement.

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Rafael Marcus: And it’s low enough to map so you can just kind of leverage the engagement. You already have versus trying to create awareness which might already exist. Um, so this is a way that I that I try to figure out how to spend the dollars that I got, um, and, you know, the idea is to optimize ROI.

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Rafael Marcus: We go into more details about other stuff shortly, but all in there.

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Lori Golden: And we’ve used Home Depot. A couple times. As an example, and talked about their need for software engineers. And of course, we’ve worked with a lot of tech companies combined the three of us here.

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Lori Golden: What is the real difference between, you know, amplifying your employer brand to a B2C company versus a B2B. I mean, there must be many more opportunities on the B2C side, you know, because you have your talent are probably I’ll see your customers. How does that work.

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James Ellis: You have to manage your consumer Halo, or at least be aware of the consumer Halo. I think it’s no surprise that everybody wants to work at Google for years and years and years, not because they did amazing employer brand. In fact, they did almost no employer brand because

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James Ellis: It was the tool we all use from research or email or maps, whatever. So they had, they could coast on their consumer brand for a very long time and they to some extent that they did.

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James Ellis: Nothing wrong with that. And if you’ve got a great consumer brand absolutely use it.

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James Ellis: You know this is going to be very much to use every part of the buffalo situation right if you have great consumer Halo you use it if you don’t have it. Well, you got to go look elsewhere. Now for some consumer brands.

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James Ellis: The Venn diagram of who your customers are. And who’s going to work for you is to separate circles, in which case okay no consumer Halo to work with. But there’s nothing wrong with that.

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James Ellis: There are other things you can work with be to be to be work with this all the time, for the most part people who work in B2B never engage would never be a potential customer of that product before they use it.

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James Ellis: But really, you know, you think of what every little touch point your marketing team does on your consumer side every single touch point every single engagement every mailer every email every flyer every

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James Ellis: Cardboard stand up by the checkout counter every receipt tape ever. I mean,

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James Ellis: The stickers with the price tags on the shelves. If we’re going to go to a Home Depot or target kind of situation.

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James Ellis: So many opportunities. The question is, how do you tap into it without one disrupting what marketing is already doing and to them.

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James Ellis: There’s, there’s a very finely balanced calculus of where the messaging are and not too much messaging and not too little messaging.

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James Ellis: You don’t want to get in there and getting them in that mess. What you want to do is say, look, there’s a way for us to work together were

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James Ellis: supporting me supports yourself to say, look, the people who work here aren’t just customers, they know all the customers they hang around customers, they are

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James Ellis: You know, go to the same parties and barbecues and beer and beer halls and what have you. They

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James Ellis: Are engaged to very similar audience. So the more we can activate what people like working about here. People are going to be more likely to want to buy here.

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James Ellis: And the dog would agree with me, maybe not everybody else but least the dog what because I can read dogs minds. That’s a superpower. I have

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah um I you know I don’t have much to add because James pretty much covered all of it. Um, what I would just say is that

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Rafael Marcus: The Employer branding on the consumer side is more risky, like, way more risky.

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Rafael Marcus: And if and that’s that’s because of the relationship between, you know, perception of Eve, not just your consumer side and company’s brand.

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Rafael Marcus: But how they treat their people. Right. And that’s going to affect how people want to buy or not buy

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Rafael Marcus: We talked recently and maybe was in the first one, or not sure if there’s a second webinar about Richard Branson studying Virgin Media and understand learning that a bad

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Rafael Marcus: A bad employee candidate experience led to a loss of, you know, 5 million or so dollars in sales, because those people who had a bad experience no longer wanted to be in a customer of virgin

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Rafael Marcus: Virgin Media. So, um, so that’s just something to think about. Or remember is that if you’re on the consumer side.

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Rafael Marcus: You know, just because of context. The risk is much higher. And you saw that you know all this stuff that happened with Amazon.

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Rafael Marcus: You know, an employee complained about being mistreated and and just like doesn’t matter which direction it when or how it ended, but it was just chaos and a lot of that is because people are afraid to

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Rafael Marcus: Or, you know, you can’t be afraid to upset the actual customers and it’s like a minefield out there right now because not just right now, but just in general because social media and and what I would consider oversensitivity um

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Rafael Marcus: You know, it’s, it’s just how it is. So just, just be careful if you’re on the consumer side and work really closely with your branding and marketing team or agency. Yeah.

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James Ellis: And there’s a lot of studies that show if you screw over your candidates, they’re going to stop buying for us. And it does have an impact tmobile is a great study to

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James Ellis: There’s a couple of the thing is is that you have to be

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James Ellis: Very aware that they are similar people. And so if you try to talk to them from two different sides, you’re going to be misaligned, you’re going to get Miss mixed mixed messages and that’s rough. To do that, said

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James Ellis: Your marketing team should want to talk to you a lot more these days because you are carrying a lot more of the customer brand that you were, say, I don’t know, seven weeks ago.

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James Ellis: You know, you know how people treat companies treat their employees.

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James Ellis: directly correlates not just candidates, but their employees directly correlates to how much I want to buy at that grocery store that grocery store.

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James Ellis: If I go into the grocery store and I see that the deli guys not wearing a mask and I get the sense that

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James Ellis: That grocery store is not taking care of their employees, guess what, last time I talked to you and I’m gone, that’s, you know, since the line between

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James Ellis: The point experience and the candidate experience is razor thin. If there’s any daylight between them at all. So you got to kind of see it holistically. But the nice thing is

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James Ellis: With situation. You have a lot more leverage than you did a while ago. So figure out how do you tap into that. Not in a. How do you take advantage of that, but more. How do you use that. How do you work together better. So you’re actually supporting each other.

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Lori Golden: There are obviously many different ways to, you know, amplify it and employer brand and many different actual like deliverables involved in that we talk about what some of the main ones are and then some of the really wild bold and crazy ones.

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James Ellis: You go first rough

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Rafael Marcus: Um, what you said. Examples of content of employer running

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James Ellis: As channels.

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Lori Golden: You do that. There’s a there. There’s so many different places where your employer brand can be amplified career page videos blogs

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Lori Golden: You know, human stories from inside the company events, of course, let’s talk about what some of the ones are that are you know like the lowest hanging fruit. The ones that that are most common and then what are some little bit more creative unusual means

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Yeah.

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Lori Golden: Eight messaging.

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Rafael Marcus: Unfortunately, I think the more common ones are going to be more of like stock photos and more generic like like values being listed that you can kind of tell a were is a

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Rafael Marcus: Service more than, you know, authenticity, and you know, I think that’s changing but is very slowly. And I think, you know, I think people are people are scared or leaders are scared about

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Rafael Marcus: Being too vulnerable or exposing too much of themselves. Um, but yeah, I mean there’s there’s an enormous amount of ways you can do it all the way from

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Rafael Marcus: Kind of leaning more towards what Jane was taught James talking about and what Lisa, I think, was asking about, which is no budget, which is give your employees, the permission to, you know, show themselves, right.

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Rafael Marcus: And you know that that may sound simple but it’s actually i don’t i don’t think it is.

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Rafael Marcus: You know, you could assume that employees are going to show where they are. Anyway, but I think people are hesitant, unless you’re at a company that has that culture built in already

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Rafael Marcus: And it’s, you know, I think they will only feel safe if leadership one communicates and reinforces that and to actually participants themselves.

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Rafael Marcus: So a good way, Lisa, for example, is to let people use the tools they have which is cell phones and social media, which are all free or that they have already, but a way to kind of sparked the fire and keep the fire going is by having senior leaders participate

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Rafael Marcus: And you know, you don’t need budget to do that. You just need a line to them and get them to listen, which is a whole different different challenge.

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Rafael Marcus: But that that’s one way to do it. And then you know you. I passed that company I worked at a previously, we did some really kind of out there, videos, but they reflected, you know, there’s like a talking unicorn puppet interviewing people, and it was rude and

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James Ellis: Whatever, it’s like, bang. Yeah.

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Rafael Marcus: So that was kind of the, the real culture at your iPad. But, you know, a lot of other companies, if you came to leadership and said, You want to do something that they, I mean they kick you out of the room maybe out of the building.

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Rafael Marcus: You know, events are a fantastic way to bring your employer brand to life. Although personally I don’t like to do events that are, you know, recruiting recruiting driven

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Rafael Marcus: Explicitly to the audience and more do events reflecting interesting thing that companies, the company is doing the technology blow up.

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Rafael Marcus: That is, you know, understood. Also, or can be understood as a way to recruit people, but it’s not, you know, really a recruiting event, um,

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, there’s, I mean there’s millions of ways also lots of platforms you can participate on. And of course, social media, James. I’m sure you have stuff to add

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James Ellis: I mean, yeah, recruiting events are only going to track professional job seekers who you are good.

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Rafael Marcus: At

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James Ellis: Their job postings. Anyway, so don’t bother. I mean, I think I’m a big believer in education. I’m a believer that if you talk about something and teach people something they’re far more likely to engage with you in return. Right. There’s so many different ways to do that. But, you know,

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James Ellis: You said something that it kind of sparked this idea that, you know, there are standard ways of doing things with the thing you just it show yourself right and that’s like

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James Ellis: Telling someone getting into the dating pool. Just be yourself. Oh, it’s that easy. Okay, I’m just going to be myself and people of the opposite or same sex. Oh no, no judgment.

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James Ellis: Are going to flock all over me. No, of course not learning how to be yourself. The whole concept of know thyself is some of the deepest hardest to activate

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James Ellis: Experience advice in the world. It’s so simple and yet somehow, the more you think about it, the more deep, it becomes the harder it is to do but

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James Ellis: The same is said that Employer branding knowing who you are, understanding how to talk about it in a way that makes sense that it’s aligned is so hard to do. And yet,

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James Ellis: That’s really what we’re expected to do. The question is, how do you open up the the lanes for people to do that now. I think Rob’s. Right. Right. You know, you talk to leadership and you

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James Ellis: Very much a show, don’t tell. And if people see you, you do it, you’d end up doing it. I think another actor, a way to do it is to

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James Ellis: Provide guide rails is to really say, look, these are the rules and some people have a social media policy in place. I think you could take it a step further, you could say, look,

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James Ellis: Here’s 10 examples of things that will get you fired and here’s 10 examples of things that we would love for you to talk about not do this, don’t do this not say this, say this, say this, you know, you want to turn people in a minor birds, but

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James Ellis: When people haven’t certainly that what they’re allowed to post, they tend to just kind of back away and say it under their breath or over and glass door where you know scares the crap out of you, as it should.

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James Ellis: But if you give them a you know a guideline to say this is what’s okay and this is what’s not, they’re going to be more inclined to do it, there’s a knock on effect to that they don’t think people talk about and that is

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James Ellis: If you provide clear guidelines and maybe, I don’t know, you get them somehow certified in some manner.

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James Ellis: Your HR team and legal teams will swing by your house with a

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James Ellis: Big basket of cupcakes, because they are going to be so thrilled that you provided certification processes things that they could say

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James Ellis: Once they cross this line to get fired. Got it. Clearance fast rules. They love that they can’t get enough of that.

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James Ellis: And so if you really want to activate your internal audiences. Think about how to certify them so they know the rules and that your legal people, you know, get that you what you’re doing and it creates great great opportunities for you to build an ally ship inside that inside those teams.

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, and I

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Comeet Webinar: Great example of that, too. If I can jump in real quick.

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Comeet Webinar: Yeah, please. Um, I worked at a company called just works. A few years ago, and after they had come out with the guidelines for their employees, like that. They set up.

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Comeet Webinar: headshots for employees that were kind of branded by the company and they also set up some really cool.

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Comeet Webinar: Just like social media assets images that we could plug and play and use ourselves, but the head shots were really awesome. And it was just an employee who had a really nice camera and had experience. It costs literally zero dollars. Yeah.

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Comeet Webinar: Totally and and we brand you know we just branded it

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Comeet Webinar: With the company’s branding and everyone had really nice headshots and was really proud of using them on their social accounts.

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James Ellis: LinkedIn banners.

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James Ellis: Social media.

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Rafael Marcus: Just say

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Rafael Marcus: I mean LinkedIn banners for you, iPad, Lord. You remember the crazy

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Lori Golden: Ones.

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Rafael Marcus: Do you like we came up with like

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, really goofy like but you know again reflective of our

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Rafael Marcus: Our thing. But you know when people join the company that we work. The last. It was a very exciting moment. So, and, you know, not everybody’s going to be in this situation, but there was a huge demand for

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Rafael Marcus: Like what kind of stuff. Can I put on my LinkedIn. And so what we did was we built a microsite using SharePoint.

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Rafael Marcus: Two, or is it points or whatever the microsite Microsoft a thing that you can build sites with we build a microsite designed basically for people to be able to click something download it and put it into their LinkedIn profile which included banners I’m

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Rafael Marcus: Not headshots because you know what, we provide a head shots but I don’t event.

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Rafael Marcus: We provided like video like the one we talked about. And also, like our culture deck and I put in the microsite actually

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Rafael Marcus: Paired it paired all the content with instructions of how to put it on your LinkedIn profile, where to put it. Because not everybody knows that you can put a PDF

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Rafael Marcus: Like in your summary or under your current experience and that kind of stuff. So we build like a really comprehensive site for helping people build their LinkedIn profiles with content on it. And that brings me to a another

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Rafael Marcus: Another point about LinkedIn.

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Rafael Marcus: I want to give a

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Rafael Marcus: Quick tip.

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James Ellis: About why should we listen to you about LinkedIn, what

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James Ellis: You know about LinkedIn.

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Rafael Marcus: So well listen at your own risk. Right. But, uh,

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Rafael Marcus: One. One thing I want to tell people to piggyback on what James is saying in terms of getting your, your employees activated.

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Rafael Marcus: It might not be that easy, uh, you know, just to think about people who are really active in your company. And really, you know, believers and all that. So actually you fear in a huge company.

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Rafael Marcus: So what you can do. I’m just going to share my screen here. I’m going to show you show you a tip. What you can do is type in any company. So you I passed my former company and instead of clicking on the auto populated thing here.

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Rafael Marcus: Click the Search button.

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Rafael Marcus: One second, and then an very little known tip press content.

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Rafael Marcus: And what you’re going to see is a bunch of people from that company. So let’s assume this is your company who are posting very actively

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Rafael Marcus: Okay.

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Rafael Marcus: This tells you, people who are actually like like

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James Ellis: Literally in their hands there. Listen, I want to play a game. I want to play a game. Let’s do. Yeah.

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Rafael Marcus: Saying I’m excited I am.

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Rafael Marcus: I am so proud.

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James Ellis: Right, like

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Rafael Marcus: You know, and these aren’t only first few connections. So you can learn about people in your organization that you never knew existed or even people that you knew existed but didn’t

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Rafael Marcus: Didn’t know that there is a champions until you booked here or you know similar places, you know, online or whatever.

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Rafael Marcus: So just a quick tip and another free way to you know get get stories out there, everything is to use

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Rafael Marcus: To encourage these people that you find to write long form articles. So, you know, you can start, you can write an article you know one of these

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Rafael Marcus: Which then gets attached to your profile, etc, etc. And then if this is posted. You can actually take the link copy it and put it on.

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Rafael Marcus: On the career page. I don’t know if you are still has those, but I’m like LinkedIn allows you to link articles written on LinkedIn to the life page to scroll down and usually the best

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James Ellis: Way to get people to do that is to provide resources to make it easier at offer copy editing offer images.

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James Ellis: Offer, you know, kind of just a second set eyes again if they’re nervous that what they say isn’t going to be useful or

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James Ellis: It might get in trouble. They won’t do a darn thing. But if you can make it easy grease the skids a bit they’ll jump right in.

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah. And you see guy, you know, Guy Kirkwood wrote this article in February. Now, once he writes it yes you can put it here. You could also send this article to your entire company and say, you know, feel free to

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Rafael Marcus: Air or you can post it uh you know from your company on to LinkedIn or other places, and then take the link to that post and share it, you know, an email or in Slack, the entire company, and then you’re starting to get some that organic social media.

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Rafael Marcus: Behavior from your employees all for free. So I just wanted to show people that that quick tip. I hope it was helpful.

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James Ellis: I got one, since we’re since we’re playing the share my screen game.

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James Ellis: So my friend Audrey night over at foundation media foundation medicine put just put this together, it’s public, so if you google foundation medicine.

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James Ellis: Talent brand kit you will get this at the top result.

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James Ellis: She just made a public facing website that has all the stuff. It’s the kit have everything you need to talk about its hey, here are pillars and here’s our MVP. Here’s a message, but really

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James Ellis: Here’s the stuff you can share. Here’s how to change your LinkedIn banner. Here’s how to change this information. Here’s

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James Ellis: Get your how to get your headshot had a, you know, here’s the videos you can share and she just dumps all this stuff in here.

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James Ellis: Knowing. And of course, you got to promote it a bit internally but to say this is one stop shopping in one spot. I’m gonna teach you everything you need to know.

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James Ellis: You know, I think it’s fascinating how many people who are

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James Ellis: Highly trained incredibly smart professionals who have no idea how to change the banner on LinkedIn.

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James Ellis: Who have no idea that they can be active in that space or that they should explain their job. Little bit or connect with other people.

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James Ellis: So, making it easy. If that’s the channel. You want to leverage is the best. You know, as a great way to do that. So I highly recommend otters material here, this is, this is great work.

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Lori Golden: That’s really beautiful. It really is a great page.

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Lori Golden: So now we’re going to take. We’re going to shift a little bit and answer some of these questions. We have some wonderful questions in the Q AMP. A SO ADRIAN, if you want to go ahead and throw out the first one there.

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Comeet Webinar: Yeah, so let’s let’s maybe combine

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Comeet Webinar: Or why don’t we talk careers page. That’s the kind of top rated question here. Right. So Emily asked if you’re redesigning our careers page. What tips do you have to make a good impacts. We’ve talked kind of

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Comeet Webinar: Channels off of your, your own website. Why don’t we talk a little more about your own careers page.

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James Ellis: Building on property you own. That’s always a good idea.

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Rafael Marcus: I you know I think this goes, actually. So Emily, it’s a great question. And obviously, people are having similar, you know, have the same question in mind. Um, I think it’s actually goes back to the first two webinars.

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Rafael Marcus: Which is first. I mean, you really have to discover who you are, um, and, you know, the career page itself. What I wouldn’t do which I unfortunately see too often is, you know, a static image one paragraph about what it’s like to work there and then Alyssa jobs.

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James Ellis: Or it’s on the corporate site. It’s not even on its own navigation. It’s trying to sell you products. Well, it’s trying to get you to

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Rafael Marcus: Give them jobs right which is which is sad. So the first thing I would think of Emily is what is the experience you really want people to have and walk away with

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Rafael Marcus: And that does that means not only potentially limiting it to just a page, right, maybe it’s a career site to James’s point

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Rafael Marcus: Maybe there’s more to it than just the main navigation and, you know, I would think about, obviously, who is it that you know that you want to

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Rafael Marcus: You want to recruit and maybe prioritize. Some of the more tougher audiences.

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Rafael Marcus: That you know you haven’t broken through with yet and you know that you’re going to get more traffic because you’re advertising or whatever and really focus on them. So maybe

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Rafael Marcus: You build a team page for engineering, maybe one for sales or, you know, for everywhere else that that you want to grow. But, you know, again, everything should be designed around what you want people to take away

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Rafael Marcus: And without without real limitations, really, but also reflective of who you really are which stems from of your values builds up to your MVP and your MVP pillars, your

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Rafael Marcus: value propositions. People should really be what a big thing that people take away is, what do I get by joining

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Rafael Marcus: In addition to what is the culture like what it’s like inside the walls. Those are the two things that I think are most important. When thinking about a redesign.

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Rafael Marcus: But again, it all has to come through the lens of, like, Why do you exist, who you are as an employer and to highlight the benefits of

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Rafael Marcus: Being part of that family or their company.

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James Ellis: Yeah, I think if you’re focusing on especially a front page which by the way you have to think about who exactly is typing in your company jobs. I mean, who exactly is that person.

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James Ellis: Chances are they’re coming in from a job board, statistically, if you look at your stats. Most of your crap traffic is coming from a job board or it’s coming from

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James Ellis: There a couple other sites that it’s coming from. So they’re already predisposed to have a sense of Wait, who is this company, what’s it all about

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James Ellis: At that stage, the mistake is I’m going to tell you what my company is all about.

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James Ellis: You, but I don’t care. I mean, I don’t care if you tell me what you’re all about. I don’t believe it.

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James Ellis: I don’t embrace it. I don’t, I don’t, it’s not useful credible, it’s just it’s a paragraph. Right. It’s that thing that you’re going to stick into a poster.

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James Ellis: And someone referred to that stuff is poster far, which I thought was incredibly descriptive the junk that you don’t have to pay attention to because someone trying to do a poster. So I can ignore that. Right.

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James Ellis: What you need to do is think about, How are you different. This is a game of differentiation. There are 18 million businesses in North America alone. I think that numbers conservative these days.

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James Ellis: You know, there are so many options as everybody can work remote literally you’re thinking about you are competing at 17 million plus of companies who are offering similar benefits and similar wages in similar places and similar sets. You got to have certain the

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James Ellis: Differential oh yeah no but and then beer on Friday because magically that’s all better with a ping pong table. It’s all bowl. It’s all junk. It’s about what makes you different and that gets back to that know thyself thing. It is about

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James Ellis: Look, it’s, you know, you know, you don’t want to compete on what the who has the better coffee. I

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James Ellis: Guess you know there’s someone on maybe it’s me. Who would say we have better coffee. I want to work there. Maybe that would be neat, but really that’s not going to drive.

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James Ellis: It’s got to be understanding what do you care about what matters to you. What is the the change you’re making in the universe by being in this business.

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James Ellis: extrapolate that out into what does that mean to a person and then show how that’s different from other people. Now, you touched on something earlier off about stock footage or stock images and I think

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James Ellis: The problem with stock images is that it’s not true. It’s about some other company. It’s a play about a company that isn’t yours you decided to slap your label on it.

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James Ellis: The mistake is not then to say I’m going to make my own stock art. It’s going to be justice glossy and justice, pretty, but with my actual people. You’re like, yeah, it’s not really a step forward, because no one will believe that that’s you.

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James Ellis: Is to be real. It is to show the stuff. And I think there’s another question about negative engagement, which I think is fascinating because

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James Ellis: I’m a big believer in if I tell you that my company is innovative, I better back it up. I better be true, the ETS level if it better be true.

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James Ellis: At the website level that that may be true with the LinkedIn level. It’s got to be innovation that sees everywhere. But if I tell you I’m innovative.

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James Ellis: But we’re all focused. Think of Amazon 20 years ago and Jeff Bezos had that door on the saw horses. They were a company, changing the world, but they had

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James Ellis: Doors as desks. That’s where they were, they were they were they were scrappy. They were showing themselves for who they truly were yes they’re innovative.

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James Ellis: But you could see that they were making individual sacrifices in service of that innovation and let’s be fair. That was true across the whole company, they weren’t taking they weren’t making profit.

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James Ellis: They weren’t paying out dividends. They were saying everything goes to the business, you know, people be damned individuals began. This is all about the concept of making the world’s greatest store.

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James Ellis: that rings true because the CEO is sitting at a door. Yes. Isn’t that doesn’t prove innovation. What it does it prove sacrifice towards something. And that’s where

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James Ellis: You can say this is true if I’m willing to sacrifice money to up to a

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James Ellis: Charity, I must believe in that charity, if I just say, oh, that’s a nice charity and don’t give us any money. I don’t believe in the same way the, what is the company sacrificing in order to get where the individual sacrificing in order to get

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James Ellis: Understand that distill that and your messages between twice a strong because we crystal clear. This is a no BS understandable.

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James Ellis: Hey I 90% of people don’t want this, but the 10% of people who do are going to fall in love. That’s where your career site should be focused. How do I get someone to go

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James Ellis: Oh wow, I’ve never seen it. Put that way. I’ve never seen a company think that way. That’s new. That’s interesting. And from there you just run

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Comeet Webinar: Out of

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Rafael Marcus: Kayla ass up. We just talked about it. I just wanted to quickly address it is that are it or

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Comeet Webinar: Yeah, go for it.

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Rafael Marcus: Don’t Kayla, thanks for your question. Your first question about fintech, uh, you know, I don’t have it off the top my head, we, you know, I would need to, you know, dive into a lot of research. So we can potentially talk about that offline.

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Rafael Marcus: But your second question about how to put your MVP MVP out there, I’m busy. You asked, do you just publish it and influence everything your dude you

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Rafael Marcus: Or do you publish it everywhere. I would say that it’s a little bit of the first part, which is a let it be and let it influence things

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Rafael Marcus: I mean it more or less your MVP. Usually it’s not just it’s generally not just one thing. It might be like three pillars, or something of, you know, value propositions or whatever that I would certainly highlight like on the career page and be kind of an overarching

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Rafael Marcus: You know thing people understand about working there.

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Rafael Marcus: But I would not look at everything through that lens I would actually going back to the first webinar. And I think part of the second

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Rafael Marcus: Look through the lens of. Why do we exist and your, your employer brand which is built on top of your values.

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Rafael Marcus: Your proof points of those values the VP. And then from all of that you can figure out like your essence as an employer brand. And that’s what I would actually communicate everything through the lens of I’m

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Rafael Marcus: Not as much, specifically the Evie, Evie piece himself. So I hope that helps. I just wanted to quickly address that Adrian

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James Ellis: I throw something out there. I have a somewhat different opinion which is fun.

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James Ellis: I like to argue with you. So I don’t believe you should ever say you’re a VP. I think your MVP is a conceptual idea that never makes it outside of

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James Ellis: Recruiting or hrs office, maybe a CEO, CFO at once goes. Cool. That’s fine. And they never have to think about. It’s an idea.

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James Ellis: What you show is a marketing and creative expression of that concept and what you can say is, OK, if I’m taking that concept and expressing it to software engineers or two sales people. They can be completely different expressions, but they have the same idea.

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James Ellis: The second you say here’s my EP, and here are pillars, you were locking yourself into a concept that one is going to be fuzzy by nature, it’s gonna be a lot of BS. You know, you

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James Ellis: Until you prove it until you show the edge of it until you show the negative side of until you show what you’re sacrificing. It’s just a lot of poster fighter again.

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James Ellis: But if you tell the story about how this sock salesperson lives and breathes that idea if you tell the story about how that software engineer.

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James Ellis: Pushes that forward. Those are stories that are grab gonna grab my attention because they speak my language and I don’t need to know the exact wording of the MVP. I just need to kind of create the conception in my mind. Here’s a way of thinking about it.

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James Ellis: Every seen the movie airplane. Right.

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James Ellis: Is that not the greatest disaster movie ever. Oh, no. It’s a comedy. Oh, no. It’s a love story.

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James Ellis: Oh no, it’s a it’s it’s a thing and how you see it is how you perceive it. And then there are people who see it as a great love story there people who see it as a Great Disaster flick. There are people who see it as a great comedy and they’re all those things.

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James Ellis: It’s everybody’s looking at the same thing and coming away with different elements. Your EP should be that thing because it’s not

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James Ellis: The words, it’s the concept. Those words are trying to express so just be careful. Just saying here’s my EP slap it on a poster and call it Dr. Cole slab on your career site and call it done.

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I think the

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Rafael Marcus: Disconnect between you and me, James. Is that like everything you’re saying is what I would call the employer brand and this is

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James Ellis: Where architecture is always fun.

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Rafael Marcus: Alright, alright. So I think it’s, it’s actually just the words you’re using. But I think we’re, we’re actually on the same page.

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James Ellis: Because I think of like Amazon. Amazon DDP is we pioneer but you go to the crusade. It doesn’t really talk about that, but all the things it does and how it talks about that.

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James Ellis: supports an idea around that, in fact, once you see that their brand is evil or a VP or however you want to call it, is we pioneer, you start to see how it’s being activated all these different ways. It’s like, oh, it’s crystal clear it’s we pioneer

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James Ellis: But you didn’t have to know those words to to get the same kind of just out of it. Yeah.

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Rafael Marcus: To me that we pioneer would be the brand essence or the employer brand. Um, but, again, just different words really

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James Ellis: Will do a whole webinar.

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On architectures.

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Rafael Marcus: Which question, should we do next didn’t

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Lori Golden: Well that was a kind of it that kind of piggybacks a little bit on Mary kits question around kind of how to get people to put that authentic.

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Lori Golden: Their authentic stories. How to highlight that stuff on your career page, you know, beyond just the stuff that we create ourselves from within that team, but how do you get the, the stories from the the field, let’s say,

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Rafael Marcus: I’m I mean going back to what I mentioned before, is I would, you know, try to find some people who are willing, maybe already doing something

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Rafael Marcus: In terms of getting being out there, not necessarily talking about the company but you know people that are already using social media already posting on LinkedIn, whether it’s about your company or not.

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Rafael Marcus: And, you know, try to filter through and find somebody who is not a bad writer, you know, decent writer and have them talk about like the challenges of their job, what what challenge. Are they working on right this is

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Rafael Marcus: especially interesting for the engineering audience, which is what are you trying to accomplish. How are you doing it. What do you hope the outcome is what are the bumps in the road and doing. So what kind of technology you’re using. And that’s all free. Right. And, you know, Mary Kate. I appreciate

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Rafael Marcus: The, you know, creative lens. But sometimes, you know, you don’t even need to really get that creative I’d argue being more black and white is sometimes better and easier to get off the ground and to get you know permission for. Is that something that you need before activating something

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Rafael Marcus: And, you know, people can freely right on their own behalf so you know I would dive a little more deeply into people’s real experience at the company.

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Rafael Marcus: Particularly around their challenges, I would probably stay away from things about our culture so great. Our culture so great. That’s not what really people care about

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Rafael Marcus: You know, in consuming content. People want to be entertained. They want value they want to be informed.

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Rafael Marcus: And, you know, if it’s told the right way simply explaining what you do what you’re working on. If you’re in sales, like a big project that you worked our big client you worked on that was exciting for whatever reasons. Those are the kinds of things that

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Rafael Marcus: I would lean into

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Rafael Marcus: And not take not take for granted and not overthink or complicated either. I hope that’s helpful.

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James Ellis: Yeah, I think you’re you’re 100% right. My only comment would be. It’s a lot of work to play journalist. It’s a lot of work to interview.

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James Ellis: And distill and understand like if I was to interview machine learning person.

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James Ellis: What I would write would be total gobbledygook because I have no idea how machine learning works or what it is or data science or

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James Ellis: Frankly, had barely passed my statistics class three times. I had to take it. So I’m not the best person to do that and that’s

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James Ellis: Unfortunately, sometimes what happens with content marketing approaches that you play journalist, you get just enough just to kind of put it out there. But you don’t sound like someone who gets it. So,

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James Ellis: The more you can let people speak in their own words and provide the

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James Ellis: Frameworks and structure for them to speak on their behalf on their own behalf to talk to and have their kind of people

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James Ellis: The better off you’re going to be now asking them to write long articles where they interview themselves. That’s a great way for to get exactly nothing back yet a lot of crickets.

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James Ellis: But if you’ve been asked a cute question. If you can kind of have a simple prompt

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James Ellis: If you can say show me one picture that illustrates

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James Ellis: What work is like here, just something that starts to get them that build the muscle right know what none of us who are writers started by writing a novel. We started by writing a sentence in a paragraph and getting comfortable with it and getting good at it.

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James Ellis: Make it easy just asked for a sentence or paragraph something simple, a photo, a quick video, you know, a tick tock, or even a

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James Ellis: You know, just a short 10 second video that says, show me something, show me something interesting.

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James Ellis: Go as simple as, what are three words that describes working here. It was something as simple as

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James Ellis: You know, what does your mom think you do here, what you do is go to something as simple as, what’s the there’s so many different things you can do. But just distill it to make it easy.

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James Ellis: Get people to engage get people to hang out with you to play the game and they, you can come back and say, great, but here’s the second question, let’s do it that way.

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James Ellis: One, they make for great social content just absolutely great. So john there’s actually a an app that will record a video and turn it into a gift, where the things you say turn into a word bubble visually. It’s super cool.

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James Ellis: It’s a little Genki. It’s a little glitchy but it’s a lot of fun if you can get it to work. And so if you say things

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James Ellis: One or two words about what it’s like to work here and they say it you record it, you have both a gift and textual content that you can use over and over again.

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James Ellis: Though to rest point you know if that’s not your tone of voice, there’s lots of other ways to do it. But if you are willing to be open. If you’re willing to be more human and be goofy like that. There are lots of different fun apps to use like that.

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Lori Golden: That’s cool Tambor is asking what that app is called so

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James Ellis: I have no idea. Oh my god.

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Lori Golden: Maybe what we’ll find it.

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Lori Golden: And hopefully by the end of this at the end. But I want to take. I want to ask a two part coven specific question because everybody has questions.

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Lori Golden: Regarding right now. And because of what we’re going through and the times we’re in, and blah, blah, but these, these are, this is

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Lori Golden: Unrelated but both specific to cover so tanvir second part of his question is, I think we address the first

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Lori Golden: Is what are some ideas on content for employer brand during this time on LinkedIn, in particular, like, how can you leverage what’s happening.

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Lori Golden: You know, to show who you are as a company, how you take care of your people. And the second part of that is on kids question, which is, he was repurposed what should employer brand professionals be doing to sharpen their

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Lori Golden: Tools right now like it you know if there’s no activity, no budget and nothing going on there. What are some ways that employer brand professionals can kind of prepare for

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Lori Golden: You know, deeper learning of what’s next.

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I mean for the right now. I hope I don’t have offend anyone. But, um, I would like I’m getting close to throwing up if I see one more, like, you know, fluffy article or whatever about working from home like

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James Ellis: It’s like

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Rafael Marcus: I think we’re past it not not covered, but past the moment where the explosion of, um, you know, this is how I’m working from home stuff. I think it’s a dead horse, and honestly, I’m kind of hungry for other content.

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Rafael Marcus: For content that has nothing to do with a coven 19

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Rafael Marcus: And, you know, it will go away. Eventually, and it will. Oh, you know, maybe it’ll be here for a while, but I think people can really use a break.

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Rafael Marcus: And there’s an idea right right there. Here’s some content to take a break from coconut 19 yet, like, you know, lean into it that way. It’s one. Um, but I would I would almost

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Rafael Marcus: Kind of kind of approach things from the lens of yeah kovats here, but what you know life goes on business goes on.

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Rafael Marcus: Hopefully everyone will be employed, again, you know, shortly, or whatever. Um,

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Rafael Marcus: You know, let’s talk about something that’s interesting. Uh, not entered, not necessarily just entertaining for entertainment sake and to not complain about Cobra 19 but to vent about it i think it’s it’s like an getting to the point of enough already.

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Rafael Marcus: And I think I my feeling is that people

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Rafael Marcus: Have a hunger for a little bit of normalcy in the content that they consume and

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James Ellis: We’ve reached peak inspirational message about three weeks ago.

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James Ellis: The way it’s. Yeah, exactly. And

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James Ellis: Yeah we yeah what’s beyond that and I think it is about getting back to work. It is about being better at stuff and I think

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James Ellis: You write the hundred and 7000 article on how to work from home from the person who just figured out how to work from home.

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James Ellis: Despite the fact that many of us has been doing it for quite some time. And thank you very much. Those are wonderful words of advice. I appreciate that.

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James Ellis: newbie anyway um but I you know that that’s true, but it is about, you know, if you are in a world of

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James Ellis: Everybody’s talking about one thing the value of you talking about something else is insanely

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James Ellis: Under appreciated if everybody’s talking about this and you’re following that best practice you are simply one of many are simply yet another talking about that thing.

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James Ellis: And you’re going to see diminishing returns. Every time you do it if everybody’s talking about inspiration. You should be talking about working hard if everyone’s talking about

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James Ellis: All the skills or learn learning. You should talk about taking time off if everybody’s talking about taking time off, find a way to pivot and differentiate yourself but then tie it back to that brand.

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James Ellis: I think that it’s absolutely crucial. I would say from the second part of the question about what should you be learning

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James Ellis: Stay away from Employer brand books as much as possible. I think a lot of employer brand blogs and podcasts and I know I’m going a couple of those they do say a lot of the same stuff over and over again. And it’s not about what’s the new idea. It’s about. Okay.

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James Ellis: They’re just saying, how do you do that as best practice and I don’t like best practices. I think the best thinking

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James Ellis: Comes from outside the market. I don’t mean go buy a bunch of marketing books. I think there’s some value there. But there’s a lot of not value. I think it’s about

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James Ellis: You know, how do you think about your challenges better. Right. I love a beautiful constraint. I love a pirate inside. I love how buildings, learn about thinking and systems. I love, you know, how do you see a bigger picture, other than

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James Ellis: How do I craft a better article The frankly

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James Ellis: Go take classes are in, you know, master classes or dummies or whatever, buy books on writing better

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James Ellis: There’s that’s never been a skill that goes bad. I mean, if you can write better headlines. You can write better subject lines your emails are going to get read better. It’s just inherently good so I would focus on outside the space.

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James Ellis: If you have a good sense of what employer brand is and then bring those skills and ideas into it to say, how do I apply them here because I think that’s

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James Ellis: We’re still all learning. And I know a lot of professionals who do this, who are really good at their job, but they learn pulled good stuff from the outside. That’s where the best thinking can make it happen.

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, and Emily posted a really great idea for anybody that wants to read that in the chat. I think it’s great. Um, something like that. That’s more around

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Rafael Marcus: Are you be like mental health and mental wellness and, you know, leaving anxiety and stress. I think that’s fantastic especially internally, which is what Emily talked about. So feel free to read her comment there. I think it’s really insightful. Thanks Emily.

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Lori Golden: Emily clinic that public because you see wrote that to the panelists. So I hope if you’re coming. I’d like to share that for thanks

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James Ellis: And there’s a great example from two or three years ago to Serve and Remember, and this was very BuzzFeed double and I hate quoting Buzzfeed. But here we are.

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James Ellis: About the woman who posted an email to her boss. And hey, I just need a mental health day. I need a meltdown. Well, they needed to break and

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James Ellis: And the CEO responded by saying, and literally responded to the entire company and said,

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James Ellis: Hey, I want to thank this person for reminding us all that occasion, you need to break and we totally get it. You know, you’d expect the CEOs, they get back to work. How dare, you’re fired or something horrible like that.

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James Ellis: And it was a whole different spin and honestly that email of someone saying, I need a mental health day and the CEO, saying, I’m so glad you’re taking it and everybody remember you can take them when you need to because we want you healthy here.

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James Ellis: That went viral. And that got millions and millions of impressions and it’s the same idea here.

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James Ellis: If you are showing what you’re really all about people want to see if it’s useful information. You don’t have to see it, you have to kind of manufacture it but it’s there, it’s laying around. You just have to kind of spot it and bring it to the to the forefront.

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Lori Golden: Yeah. Are there any other. We have about five minutes left.

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Rafael Marcus: Mary’s got a few uploads, should we, and it’s actually I think a pretty good one. Yeah, like

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Rafael Marcus: Adrian, do it. Should I just read it. Hello, I’m so Mary. Thank you for the question she asked, how would you deal with negative aspects and the employer brand.

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Rafael Marcus: For example, you’re paying culture, great, but you have a reputation for long hours. How would you address this in social media messaging, James, do you want to start. Okay.

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James Ellis: So everybody knows that what engineers care about and this software engineers and physical engineers. What they care about our work life balance.

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James Ellis: Great innovation great code. But really, the ability great paying great culture and great benefits and coffee and all this other stuff.

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James Ellis: Which is why SpaceX, a company known for working people near to death is listed as the number one place for those people to work.

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James Ellis: Hmm, what you’re seeing is that this is again if everybody’s following best practices and looking at the averages of what people want generic people want

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James Ellis: Their want the safe middle but spaces SpaceX is a Company that saying, look, we’re going to Mars.

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James Ellis: And there’s no easy way to Mars. There’s only the hard way to Mars. And if you’re willing to go to Mars and you’re going to do the hard work. We are the

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James Ellis: Only place you’re going to want to work. And people go, that’s true. I want to work at Mars. I want to go to Mars. That’s the only place I would want to work.

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James Ellis: There are people who think the army is the best place to work, despite the fact that they’re gonna get shot out there are people who think they want to be teachers, despite the fact they don’t get any law good paid and the benefits are thin

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James Ellis: If you understand what’s positive about your what you work for you can use the negative to reinforce the positive

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James Ellis: For example, SpaceX. It’s not like they’re saying, hey, we work on ours, because we have nowhere else to be they’re saying, look, this is a hard challenge and people who want a hard challenge are willing to work to succeed in that hard challenge now.

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James Ellis: Could be a similar situation for you so you have to ask yourself, what are the long hours in service of you’re saying this is how much we are committed to whatever that idea is, and this is a way we prove how committed committed, we are to that idea.

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Yeah.

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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I mean, there’s no you know bread and butter or, you know, silver bullet for addressing you know a negative aspect in your employer brand.

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Rafael Marcus: It’s just, it’s not easy to do and you have to be really, really careful. Um, I think James is right, uh, you know, to piggyback off him as you can lean into it.

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Rafael Marcus: And, you know, be honest about it. I, you know, it depends, you know how much you want to draw attention to it or away from it.

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Rafael Marcus: If your if your employer branding is famously bad like really everybody knows, then you know you might be comfortable enough to actually call it out on your own career page or in social media, you know, platforms as well. Um, but I think probably the best way to combat it.

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Rafael Marcus: Is through authentic voices. Right. Um,

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Rafael Marcus: Again coming from your own employees. So it’s hard for people to like here a generic rumor about your have an overarching sense of your company in a negative way.

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Rafael Marcus: And then like without necessarily hearing it from someone specific and it’s just out there in the ether.

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Rafael Marcus: Maybe on glass door. But, you know, usually there’s positive ones to even when there’s a lot of negative ones.

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Rafael Marcus: But there’s no face to those names and, you know, they’re all anonymous and everything. Some people do. I think post fake ones and

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Rafael Marcus: It’s a lot different to hear it from somebody directly right you know on social media or anywhere else, people are posting from their voice either video or written content, whatever.

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Rafael Marcus: About how much they love the company and all the interesting things are working on and etc etc.

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Rafael Marcus: You know, that’s a way to combat it. Um, and, you know, it’s up to you again whether you want to call attention to the negative

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Rafael Marcus: A negative messaging or negative sentiment that’s out there or not. Um, I think they’re very creative ways to do that. Um, but it has to be in line with, you know, everything else you’re doing and you know there’s no one

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Rafael Marcus: You know, one solution for everybody in doing that. But, um, but yeah. Again, I would lean into the authentic voices and to tell that story and that even without going head to head with the negative

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Rafael Marcus: Negative commentary about your, your employer brand.

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Rafael Marcus: It still can have a massive impact, just so people can figure it out on their own, right, is this really true, or you know what I like. Do people really like it there. Or maybe the people that are complaining about it maybe just weren’t the right fit.

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Rafael Marcus: Right. Maybe this for me. Um, no.

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James Ellis: Yeah, I think if you’re 100% right, I think, to put it another way, you might say, look, the people who work there. They know about the long hours. So why are they doing, what did they put up with it.

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James Ellis: What’s the reason behind it. That’s what it means to get authentic. Why do these people who are ostensibly very smart, very capable very good people, people you want to model all your new hires on

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James Ellis: Why do they do this, they’re smart enough to know this is long hours they could get a better a better job with less hours and yet they’ve chosen this place why find that why and it’s going to unlock all the employer brand messaging for so much of what you do.

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James Ellis: That’s where, that’s really where a lot of that stuff is. And let’s be fair. There’s no such thing as a perfect job. There’s no such

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James Ellis: Thing as a job where there’s not an aspect you hate, I think underlying this is the part of the job. You’re going to hate makes the good stuff that you put in your job posting

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James Ellis: Infinitely more believable. So go ahead and just say, look, here’s all the great stuff. We have a culture. Yeah, yeah. By the way, long hours. And people go, Okay, I see the bigger picture, I believe that

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Lori Golden: Yeah. Agreed. Alright, great. Well, we made it right to one o’clock on the diet and people are going to be jumping off. But before you do you will be getting this recording

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Lori Golden: And recapping all the resources that we shared and the gift maker and all these things will be part of that email and you’ll get that in the next couple days and please join us.

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Lori Golden: For our next one diversity inclusion and we’ll be sending out all the details on on that very shortly. Again, thank you so much for your participation as usually as usual is very engaging and the questions are great.

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Lori Golden: Thank you so much. James and referral. I appreciate you guys joining us I’m sad that we’re at the end of our employer brand topic, but maybe you’ll have something to share on DNI who knows but we’ll chat again soon. And again, thank you all for joining.

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James Ellis: See you next week. Bye.